The only good Indian is a dead Indian.
Someone should really lay genocide charges in international court. The evidence is pretty brutal.
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January 19 2019, 14:16:24 UTC 2 years ago
Note, I'm not saying I disagree with you, but living in an area where the tribes are major property owners and job creators, I have learned to keep my white-bread opinions about how the First Nations roll to myself.
Yes, it's true: the American government has no power to regulate the standards of sovereign nations as to who is or is not a citizen. The fact that the Tribal corporations that comprise their governments have become greedy and corrupt, and are now disenrolling political opponents and "useless eaters" by droves, is in no way the fault of the U.S. government - unless you think it was a mistake for the U.S. government to allow the tribes to be 'sovereign nations' in the first place.
I do think that - I mean, sheesh, suppose the Confederacy was a 'sovereign nation' within the U.S.? - but it's too late now, and none of my white-bread business anyway. What would you have our government do about tribal policies you don't like? Sanction them? Cut their funding? Tribal corporate attorneys are not barefoot guys in blankets; they are very sharp, very sharky, and have very low tolerance for interference in 'their' affairs.
Genocide is "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation." Disadvantageous as disenrollment may be for some, it's hyperbole to call it "deliberate killing", and the whole point of disenrollment is that the people being disenrolled are (allegedly) not legitimately part of the ethnic group or nation.
Yes ...
January 19 2019, 19:48:15 UTC 2 years ago
That's what it is. Ethnic cleansing / genocide spans all actions that lead toward a people ceasing to exist. That is the entirety of American history regarding tribal nations. It's not just about murdering hundreds of people in this or that massacre. It's about feeding them food that kills people, underfunding clinics, kidnapping their children, attacking their languages, stealing yet more land, and taking every possible chance to say by any means whatsoever that they're not "Indian enough" and therefore the government owes them nothing.
>> Because if so, and the First Nations folk hear of it, prepare to duck-and-cover against a shit-storm of accusations of racism.<<
Oh, they're saying it too. It is indeed starting a lot of fights. I prefer to call a spade a spade, and if it displeases some people, I prefer that to letting genocide go unchallenged. Some of the others are aware of it and trying to wake up more people before they're all dead. I will help when I can. I got the reference to this article off a tribal newsfeed I'm on.
>>Note, I'm not saying I disagree with you, but living in an area where the tribes are major property owners and job creators, I have learned to keep my white-bread opinions about how the First Nations roll to myself.<<
I'm anything but whitebread. I may look white, but I have very distant kin-by-marriage at Pine Ridge, and I'm still turning up fragments of Cherokee culture in my mother's family. Plus other things that aren't relevant to this conversation. Sure, if I go to a powwow, people think I'm white -- until they see me throw down four separate bills at the blanket dance. Then they can see me.
>> Yes, it's true: the American government has no power to regulate the standards of sovereign nations as to who is or is not a citizen. The fact that the Tribal corporations that comprise their governments have become greedy and corrupt, and are now disenrolling political opponents and "useless eaters" by droves, is in no way the fault of the U.S. government - unless you think it was a mistake for the U.S. government to allow the tribes to be 'sovereign nations' in the first place.<<
It is the fault of the U.S. government because it set up a deeply flawed system in the first place, and is now taking advantage of this to pretend that disenrolled people are not Indian. Will they suddenly be treated as white? Of course not. They have all of the disadvantages and none of the compensations. It directly reduces their chance of survival and reproduction. The system traps tribes in a half-life where they have neither enough sovereignty to solve their own problems nor enough subjugation for member rights to be fully protected by an outside force.
For the government to escape fault it would have to continue supporting people in some way, either letting them form new tribes (a historic solution) or creating a catchall category and reservation (a modern solution). Another is splitting the reservation and its resources when the division involves a large enough group of people on each side. All have been proposed and are advocated by different tribal folks, who argue with each other and with the ones who think the government should force tribes to re-enroll ejected members.
>>What would you have our government do about tribal policies you don't like? Sanction them? Cut their funding? Tribal corporate attorneys are not barefoot guys in blankets; they are very sharp, very sharky, and have very low tolerance for interference in 'their' affairs.<<
I tend to favor the outside alternatives: let people form new tribes or provide a catchall category. I don't think forcing people together is ever going to work, and splitting is just another way to whittle the reservations small enough they can be foreclosed. Again. While sanctions are routine tools in dealing with sovereign nations, I can't bring myself to support any action of the government against tribal people, no matter how badly they're behaving. It always goes straight to abuse. :/
Re: Yes ...
January 20 2019, 08:42:17 UTC 2 years ago
So your contention is that the First Nations are committing genocide on themselves? Again, not that I necessarily disagree, but it's not a view the First Nations folk themselves seem likely to favor.
"I have very distant kin-by-marriage at Pine Ridge, and I'm still turning up fragments of Cherokee culture in my mother's family. Plus other things that aren't relevant to this conversation."
Yes yes. Either you have a BIA card and you are an enrolled tribal member, or not, and if not, nothing you have to say on these issues matters one whit more than what I have to say, all of whose genes come from the far north-western corner of Europe. It matters nothing what people at pow-pow may take you for. People in the UK take my daughter for Irish, when actually she's only a quarter Irish by blood, and 100% American by birth - none of that makes her a citizen of Ireland, nor entitled to speak for the Irish. Look what claiming 'fragments of Cherokee culture' got Elizabeth Warren from the Cherokee Nation.
"It is the fault of the U.S. government because it set up a deeply flawed system in the first place, and is now taking advantage of this to pretend that disenrolled people are not Indian.
A deeply flawed system because it accommodated what the First Nations wanted and insisted upon, which was tribal sovereignity. It's not the U.S. government that's saying the disenrolled people aren't Indian; it's the sovereign First Nations themselves - what right has the U.S. government to contradict them?
" All have been proposed and are advocated by different tribal folks, who argue with each other and with the ones who think the government should force tribes to re-enroll ejected members."
Indeed, and when and if those tribal members come to consensus among themselves, and specifically ask the U.S. government to do something, then it will be time for the U.S. government to consider doing something. Until and unless they do, it is unwarranted interference in their sovereign business. Sadly, the disrenrolled former tribal members will have to adapt to being brown Americans with no extra perks from being citizens of a foreign country on U.S. soil, like all the other brown Americans who don't have tribal membership.
"It directly reduces their chance of survival and reproduction."
Logical fallacy. First, what evidence is there to support your statement? "Directly reduces" by what specific ways, as shown by what specific studies? But more importantly, even if it can be demonstrated that the disenrolled have fewer children and die younger than their enrolled peers as a direct result of disenrollment, "reduces the chance of survival" is not the same thing as "deliberate killing". Taking away a person's health insurance is bad, for sure, but it's still not the same as shooting them in the face.
"While sanctions are routine tools in dealing with sovereign nations, I can't bring myself to support any action of the government against tribal people, no matter how badly they're behaving. It always goes straight to abuse. :/"
I agree with you there, but what then? What the First Nations want, as they have made extremely clear for a very long time now, is to be left alone to manage their own business without the interference of anybody who is not bona fide First Nations as defined by themselves. Is this tautological? Shit yeah, but so what? it is their own business.
Yes ...
January 19 2019, 19:54:16 UTC 2 years ago
Here is a more detailed definition:
http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide/officialtext-printerfriendly.htm
Among the more salient quotes:
Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to destroy a group includes the deliberate deprivation of resources needed for the group’s physical survival, such as clean water, food, clothing, shelter or medical services. Deprivation of the means to sustain life can be imposed through confiscation of harvests, blockade of foodstuffs, detention in camps, forcible relocation or expulsion into deserts.
Forcible transfer of children may be imposed by direct force or by fear of violence, duress, detention, psychological oppression or other methods of coercion. The Convention on the Rights of the Child defines children as persons under the age of 18 years.
Genocidal acts need not kill or cause the death of members of a group. Causing serious bodily or mental harm, prevention of births and transfer of children are acts of genocide when committed as part of a policy to destroy a group’s existence.
So for example, disenrolled people are always deprived of resources (food, medical care, etc. from the government), often expelled from homes, and their children are neither counted among the shrinking identity group nor protected by even the flimsy laws that supposedly keep tribal children within the tribe.
>>and the whole point of disenrollment is that the people being disenrolled are (allegedly) not legitimately part of the ethnic group or nation.<<
If you look at the examples, you'll find that some tribes have lopped off branches containing hundreds of people who have been part of the tribe for hundreds of years going back to a founding member. To do is to be. If the family has been in the tribe for generations, they're members. Hell, I think people who've been doing the work for a decade or who marry in have a reasonable claim, but that's a more historic perspective than most folks favor today.
The obsession over blood quantum itself is a whole nother barrel of worms and the last bastion of institutionalized racism in America. >_<
Some native perspectives:
https://nativenewsonline.net/opinion/tribal-disenrollment-the-new-wave-of-genocide/
https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/archive/who-belongs-the-epidemic-of-tribal-disenrollment-rP9SELOEfE-i-KBViQs1Vw/
https://www.originalpechanga.com/2010/09/pechangas-tribal-disenrollments-is.html
Anyway, it's a giant mess. There is no talking about it without utterly outraging a whole bunch of people. Turtle Island is a coast-to-coast brawl over this shit, and it all comes down to what people think gives them the best chance of survival. A sticking point is whether they're trying to survive as individuals in a world where dollars are survival tickets, or they're thinking of the seventh generation.
I've done my homework. I've taken stances on some topics and others I'm still contemplating. I watch the news. I spread the word. And if some people are unhappy about that, they can join the hordes of other folks who disapprove of me. It won't stop me from calling out the government, suggesting solutions, forwarding tribal news, or burying fish scraps in the garden.