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The Wordsmith's Forge
The Writing & Other Projects of Elizabeth Barrette
ysabetwordsmith
ysabetwordsmith
Poem: "The Tree of Damocles"
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kengr From: kengr Date: December 6th, 2018 08:44 am (UTC) (Link)
The christmas tree vid wasn't triggery for *me* but I recognize the situation far too well. And I have no doubt that with very minor changes it could have been very triggery.

On the other hand...

Yeah, his responses was way out of proportion. but if people won't heed "stop", then they really *should* expect the other person to react *strongly* to make *sure* they get the point.

Speaking from too many sad experiences, just because *you* think it's funny doesn't mean the other person does. Nor does the fact that *you* want to talk mean that you can ignore attempts by the other person to ignore you.

*sigh*

I hope I don't get flamed to a crisp for this, but I gotta say it.

Exactly how is that situation *not* an example of "no means no"? Yeah, throwing popcorn and sexual assault are no way in the same league. Not even in the same *country*.

But at the same time, throwing the popcorn, continually making jokes that the other person doesn't think are funny (because they are belittling them) and a host of other things are *all* the same pattern, just in a greater of lesser degree.

"as long as *I* am having fun, who cares if *they* are."
ysabetwordsmith From: ysabetwordsmith Date: December 6th, 2018 09:15 am (UTC) (Link)

Thoughts

>> The christmas tree vid wasn't triggery for *me* but I recognize the situation far too well. And I have no doubt that with very minor changes it could have been very triggery.<<

Yeah, that's why I flagged it. Too many abuse survivors have bad memories of holidays and/or people throwing things. Heck, so do I; one Christmas I came downstairs to find my uncle beating my aunt with a houseshoe. :/ Hence the warning on the video.

>> On the other hand...

Yeah, his responses was way out of proportion. but if people won't heed "stop", then they really *should* expect the other person to react *strongly* to make *sure* they get the point. <<

And that's why I included the video, rather than merely describing it. Because that's what Shiv grew up with. Sure, it scared the shit out of him. The memory of it still does. But he learned something from it: words don't work, violence does. That's a key reason why Shiv says no at knifepoint. It's a core memory for him.

>>Speaking from too many sad experiences, just because *you* think it's funny doesn't mean the other person does. Nor does the fact that *you* want to talk mean that you can ignore attempts by the other person to ignore you.<<

Absolutely.

Shiv is more introverted than extroverted, although there are group activities -- such as gossip and street fights -- that he really enjoys. He gets tired of people easily. And throughout his childhood, nobody ever felt compelled to take no for an answer; they simply dragged him along like baggage. Nobody ever stopped the older kids from teasing him. Or trying to drown him. So Shiv learned that no is meaningless and the strong prey on the weak. If he wanted peace or privacy, he had to run away or hide. He got rather good at that. Now he's with people who would take no for an answer, but he rarely thinks of it, so he winds up snapping, swearing, snarking, or slapping when it's not currently necessary.

>>I hope I don't get flamed to a crisp for this, but I gotta say it.

Exactly how is that situation *not* an example of "no means no"?<<

It is an example of that. And this is exactly the lesson Shiv learned. No doesn't mean no; power means no. Asking people to stop won't make them stop, but knocking them flat will.

>> Yeah, throwing popcorn and sexual assault are no way in the same league. Not even in the same *country*. <<

True ...

>> But at the same time, throwing the popcorn, continually making jokes that the other person doesn't think are funny (because they are belittling them) and a host of other things are *all* the same pattern, just in a greater of lesser degree. <<

... but it really is a difference of degree, not of kind. In fact, I find that the root of all evil is that people want what they want, and don't care who gets hurt in the process.

>> "as long as *I* am having fun, who cares if *they* are."<<

Story of Shiv's life. :(

Things are better for him now, but that is disorienting, and he is really struggling to adapt to it. All the stuff that used to be predictable, isn't anymore, and that scares him. Whole new ideas and feelings are nagging at him, which makes Shiv feel like he's not even himself anymore.
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