Elizabeth Barrette (ysabetwordsmith) wrote,
Elizabeth Barrette
ysabetwordsmith

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When a Right Isn't a Right

I'm seeing more and more places where people are forced to sign away their right to sue if they are aggrieved. It's especially common in places where people desperately need a service, or have no choice. This infuriates me; a right is supposed to be something that can't be taken away. If it can be taken away, it's just a privilege. But the Constitution guarantees citizens the RIGHT "to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Freddie, Fannie Force Borrowers to Waive Legal Rights
Mary Kane, The Washington Independent: "When the government announced in November that it would use mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to streamline loan modifications for possibly hundreds of thousands of borrowers, officials billed the idea as a fast-track program to fight foreclosures. What no one mentioned is that homeowners would have to sign away their rights to sue, if they wanted to get those loans modified. The waiver of legal rights is buried among a long list of requirements in loan modification agreements for delinquent borrowers seeking more affordable loans under the new loan program, which began on Dec. 15."


In this particular incident, lenders who have just screwed people to the wall and gutted the economy are now demanding that borrowers waive their right to sue if something else goes wrong. That seems like a good way to guarantee that something will go terribly, horribly wrong -- and probably will end with more people homeless and the lenders demanding more money from the taxpayers.

I wish them much jingle mail.
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  • 11 comments
I'm not sure about this. I used to be involved in writing business to business contracts, and the lawyers used to tell me that writing in certain waivers or disclaimers was pointless, because even if they were there in black and white, any court would prove them invalid in law. The best example of this is if a company tried to indemnify itself against negligence - that would never wash in a court of law.

Also in employment contracts, if a company tries to put a clause in saying that if you leave, you must notgo and work for a competitor, that sort of clause is usually unenforceable in law because it represents a restraint of trade.

Ideally somebody would take one of those waivers you describe and bring a test case in the courts. I hope someone is brave enough. A company should not be able to say "anyway, we have no duty to provide any of the things you are paying for, so there". It's against natural law.
I was going to say something very similar. It's evil, but it probably isn't enforceable ... except, of course, that the Republicans pwn the court system.
>> I used to be involved in writing business to business contracts, and the lawyers used to tell me that writing in certain waivers or disclaimers was pointless, because even if they were there in black and white, any court would prove them invalid in law. <<

I've heard that from various sources. The problems include:

1) The victims targeted by this attack are all poor. Not only does that limit their ability to sue now, but many of them have always been poor. That usually means an inferior education, so they probably don't know what their rights are. They're easy prey for slick marketeers. The lenders know this; it's a key reason why they targeted that market.

2) America is currently more concerned with what is profitable than with what is right; that's what created the mortgage crisis in the first place. Plenty of laws and courts uphold things that are wrong, or against natural law. The tendency is to favor corporations over individuals, even when individuals are harmed or killed by corporate actions. This makes it risky to trust that the courts will do what's right.

>> Ideally somebody would take one of those waivers you describe and bring a test case in the courts. I hope someone is brave enough.<<

That requires not only bravery, but the knowledge that a lawsuit is possible despite the contract, the money to lodge a suit, and the time and energy to see it through. The chance of a poor person having all of those things is slim, although it would be wonderful if such a suit came together.

>> A company should not be able to say "anyway, we have no duty to provide any of the things you are paying for, so there". <<

In fact, I've seen that concept propagating wildly, in almost those exact words. Let me think ... "You understand there is no guarantee that this will have the desired effect. It may have no effect, or it may make things worse." Why would anyone put up with that nonsense? Because that provider is the only one available, or there's no time to get another one, or there are others all of whom now say the same thing. Businesses literally don't want to promise that their services will do you any good, or that they'll do you no harm. It's appalling.

>>It's against natural law.<<

I agree. Wouldn't it be nice if it were against paper law also? Businesses shouldn't be allowed to defraud people out of their rights, even if the contract is unenforcable. If something has been established as not valid contract procedure, it should not be allowed in a contract. And yet, there they are, all over the place. That creates an impression that those things are valid, because why else would they be so frequent?
What about in the context of a non-profit, entirely voluntary event where they have you sign a waiver only because they are not an organised body in any legal sense?

For example, the SCA always has such waivers at any event. Most likely it is to prevent people from just coming along and needlessly hurting themselves, but also necessary at feasts where you *could* get food poisoning (doesn't matter how good of a cook you are, it can happen).

Those sorts of things I would hope hold up in court.

The fannie/freddy thing is just absurd and sounds like they're trying to prevent a class action suit should they attempt to freeze all of the assets they hold.
I'm really not in favor of event waivers either, for similar reason: people need to have legal recourse in case they are harmed. If somebody is hiking at an event, trips over their own feet, and breaks an ankle -- that's not anyone's fault, and shouldn't lead to a lawsuit. If instead a wooden deck gives way, resulting in a broken ankle -- then it's reasonable to expect the site owner to pay some or all of the medical bills, because they were negligent in maintaining safe facilities. If food is served, it is expected to be safe to eat; if the turkey is left out for several hours so that it makes people sick, that is the fault of the cooking crew and the victims should again have legal recourse. Sensible people will work this out between themselves and not take it to court, but the court option needs to be there in case one party is not sensible.

I am endlessly frustrated by America's knack for screwing things up at both ends of the spectrum: the courts are jammed with ridiculously inappropriate suits, while at the same time, people are being stripped of their right to sue for harm that was someone else's actual fault. Some parts of the system are just so broken, I don't even know where to begin fixing them. And when people put stuff in contracts that may or may not even be enforceable, it's difficult or impossible to tell if the nonsense you're reading is genuine or illusory.
Yeah, but the people who volunteered to cook the food aren't a "crew." In the case of infrastructure, that would be a lawsuit against the landlord of the building being used and not the responsibility of the people who are using it that day.

I think for the most part, it is mostly there to prevent lay people coming along, doing something to harm themselves and then filing a lawsuit for something which was not the direct fault of any person there. Again, in the case of the SCA, it's not organised in the sense of an organisation. It's a lot of individuals coming together and sharing an event but becuase you'll have maybe 100-200 people, it has to be held at a community centre and not someone's home.
The SCA, as an example, is one of the more intricately organized groups I've ever seen. They are filed as such, though the styling may vary from one region to another. Some events are more casual, and if something went wrong, blame would logically fall on an individual. But the bigger holdings are big and entrenched with many of the same people doing the same jobs for years: a practiced team. Suing the whole SCA wouldn't make much sense for most incidents I could think up, but suing a local chapter or subset for having mismanaged an event to people's harm might make sense. Certainly other recreational groups have been sued for harmful food or activities.

What it comes down to is, people need a legitimate way to resolve disputes. If that's taken away, many of them will resort to undesirable methods of satisfaction. That would be bad, in the same way that sealing steam valves is bad. Things explode.
YOu also mentioned hiking which brings up a perfect example where a waiver would be needed. Here in Ontario we have a Bruce Trail organisation. The Bruce Trail is a path that goes along the entire Niagara Escarpment from near Niagara Falls right up to Lake Huron. This is no small path by any means. They have smaller groups in various cities along teh way and people can get together on weekends to hike certain portions or whatever.

If someone were to go and trip and, say, hurt an ankle, the waiver would prevent them from tryign to sue the non-profit Bruce Trail org for liability, since they arranged the event in the first place. It was not the fault of Bruce Trail that the individual was hurt, but that's not going to stop the person from suing and potentially winning.

Hence the waiver.

So far as I know, it is held up in Canadian courts.
Yeah, if that was me, I'd be insisting they remove that clause from any deal (although I believe veronica_milvus is correct in that a clause like that could be successfully contested). And if they refused to remove it, I'd just sue right then.
The evil of this is just.... astounding.
I'm with you. Being brave enough to and having the resources to bring a lawsuit are commendable, but not always practical and shouldn't be necessary to be legally and decently treated.

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