What makes a villain work?

"Sometimes the scariest villains, to me, are the ones I could become, under the wrong circumstances."

Oh, yes. Exactly.

I do need a Sauron every once in a while though: an unreasoning evil, implacable like a cliff, against wish you can dash yourself.

My villains from recent movies have been Prince Nuada from "Hellboy 2" and the Voudoun couple from "Skeleton Key". Nuada mainly because in addition to being a sexy elf prince he was really fighting for something, for a cause he believed in and for his people - the "heroes" of the movie were ethically the ones in the wrong, actually, and that was... interesting.

In Skeleton Key, the villains were just so damned competent. Don't know if you've seen it so I won't give away the ending, but they did their thing so *well*.

Let's see... the Morovingian in Matrix 2... he was excellent. "I love to swear in French; it is like wiping your ass with silk."

I guess I want intelligent people with understandable motivations - it isn't exactly that they're evil, but that their purposes are so at odds with the hero that they become enemies as a result of that.

Love the evil overlord list, btw.

for a cause he believed in and for his people - the "heroes" of the movie were ethically the ones in the wrong

Exactly. Brilliant observation. :)

I guess the type/kind of villains is the psychological kind, kinda like Hannibal Lector. I find it fascinating to see people with psychological fragmentation. Then again, is evil psychological? Is he or she evil because he or she is mad/insane/fruitloop-crazy? Or is he or she evil because he or she has been made/born that way?

The villain I find most sympathetic is Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker. He wasn't the big Evil per se - he redeemed himself when he saved his own son. I think I am mostly sympathetic to villains who has that nugget of goodness in them but shrouded so much in their own villainy.

I tend to prefer the intellectual villain. The psychotic/raving lunatic villain doesn't do anything for me at all. My fiance tends to like the serial killer style villain but their psychosis taints everything they do.

My favorite Villains are people like Emperor Palpatine, Blofeld (from James Bond), the entire series of bad guys from the Die Hard movies because of the nature of their villany.

One of my favorite villians was Elijah Price from Unbreakable. The reveal at the end was wonderfully done and the only film by M. Night Shyamalan that I really like.

David

PS. Thanks for the links. I already knew about the Rules for the Evil Warlord but there are a couple in your list that I was not aware of.

"Blowfeld on my MIIIIIND!!!"

Sorry. I've been watching too much Whose Line Is It Anyway?

I think, as our society becomes more sophisticated, we expect a more sophisticated kind of villain. The bad guy is no longer the one dressed in black with a history of kicking puppies around, or prone to acts of random violence. If you’re going to be evil, there better be a good reason why, and I think it makes the overall story more believable.

Probably one of the greatest villains ever was Professor Moriarty: a mind so exceptional he was intellectualy equal to the protagonist, to the point they shared a genuine respect for one another even while they butted heads.

Another I found particularly creepy was The Operative from Serenity. Nothing like an intelligent, savvy, assassin-trained intellectual zealot who will literally destroy anything and everything to get to you and then kill you too... one who knows he's a monster, and does it anyway.

I think in any conversation like this, there are two sub-categories that need to be recognized:

1) "by-default" villains. That is, characters which are only "villains" because something about them beyond their control makes them oppose the protagonist. Often computers (Hal, Auto/Otto from Wall-E).

2) villain-as-protagonist. Adds 15 new levels of complexity (that is, if done right).

I prefer my villians to have a martyr complex so strong they see themselves as the hero. Especially if our hero isn't exactly a white knight himself and has a lot in common with the villian - even if he won't admit it himself.

I like blurring the lines of good and bad, and watching them justify or grapple with required consequences to their goal.

Ooh, what an interesting topic. I would say...

1. The scariest villains are the most manipulative ones. I'm thinking of the sort of situation where the heroes realize that all of their efforts to right things have merely played into the villain's hands...that's frightening.

2. The most sympathetic villains, as others said above, are the ones who truly believe that they're doing the right thing, and we the reader/viewer can understand that viewpoint. One of my favorite moments in Les Miserables, the musical, is where Inspector Javert sings "Stars" -- he fervently believes that his actions are morally justified, and in a sense he's right.

3. The villainous motivations I find most "potent" - i.e. they affect me the most, are those in which I may agree with the ends but not the means, as it were. It can truly make me squirm if the character has views that I agree with but methods that I don't.

4. IMO, the most unsettling villainous actions are those that violate taboos, especially if the villain has no qualms or remorse. I'm thinking of taboos like, "you don't hurt kids" and "you don't betray your family for personal gain," things like that.

5. Female vs male villains...must say that's a topic worth exploring in depth; I have trouble even beginning to summarize thoughts on that.

Not being a writer, I'll skip questions 6 and 7, since I'm afraid I'm not sure exactly what constitutes a villain motif. Although if it is what I think it is, I think some writers tend to use the same ones frequently. I used to read a lot of Anne McCaffrey, and no matter what world she wrote in, it seemed there was always one Demanding Bitch who schemed to ruin things for everyone else out of spite or jealousy.

I'm a fan of any villain in which the hero finds aspects of him/herself reflected. It's a monomyth thing...

What makes a villan really sympathetic or compelling to me is a sense of humor. For instance, Alan Rickman in the first Die Hard movie. Very funny.

What makes a villan really scary to me is to have someone who seems like a really nice, friendly persona dn suddenly they do something evil. Like those Mafia dons who will kiss you hello and reassure you and be friendly and then order you to be killed.

On a related note have you seen the movie Quills? I just watched it and thought of you. It's about the Marquis de Sade. I thought you might love it, not only is it about sex and censorship, but it's about writing. The Marquis os so compelled to write he bleeds himself and uses his blood for ink. thbe movie asks all kinds of great questions about censorship, the role of art in society, and about the compulsion to write and create.

If you have seen it, I would recommend you rent it and listen to the commentary on DVD where the playright talks about these issues more in depth.