Elizabeth Barrette (ysabetwordsmith) wrote,
Elizabeth Barrette
ysabetwordsmith

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POLITICS: States that give, states that get

Of the states that get more money than they give, 84% are Republican.
Of the states that give more money than they get, 78% are Democratic.
NOW who's redistributing wealth unfairly?
Details here.
Tags: economics, politics
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I guess it wouldn't surprise you if I said I believed it was the community's duty to take care of its members... not the government's. :)

You can probably deduce most of my philosophy just from all this. More personal choice; less government intrusion. I prefer the risks and dangers of having less government support than the ones of having too much. And I know that there are dangers either way... I know my philosophy wouldn't create a utopia. :)
I guess it wouldn't surprise you if I said I believed it was the community's duty to take care of its members... not the government's.

I think of "the government" as the community's representative and agent. It simply depends on the size of "the community" in question. If a community is going to take care of its members in any sort of organized fashion, it's going to need some sort of governing agency to do that organizing. (Sometimes that "government" is going to be private, like a church's governing board of directors. Sometimes it will be public, like a local school board.)

So at what point does a government become too big, too remote from the community that elected it, to be the community's agent anymore?
I don't think of the government as an agent of community: certainly, the government has not been managing its duties the way I think it should be, much less encouraging the community I want. It's been a long time since my government represented me, anyway.

I think of it as a loaded gun. It has too much power already to be impartial or trusted.
Perhaps local government -- a town's mayor, for example -- can be an agent of community. The national government tends not to be. Like you, I feel that it's been a long time since the national government represented me; in a global forum, I'm usually either criticizing it or apologizing for it.

I agree with you about the loaded gun: a thing to be wary of, but useful if something is trying to kill you.

What would it take to make government, or organization, an agent of community?

I think a primary problem in both government and business is size. The bigger an organization gets, the farther it spreads, and the less it's compelled to care about any one person or place, or even group of people. A local business relies on the local economy and community. A national business can accomplish things a local one can't -- but chances are it doesn't care about the local economy or community anymore, because it has 500 stores and thousands of employees.

One thing that would help would be a change in structure. Right now, a corporation is like a hub with straight lines running to all the stores. It would work better if there were lateral connections, and local clusters -- if the stores could function locally as much as possible, and use the widespread connections to accomplish things that couldn't be done locally. With high-level government, we run into problems where they try to impose one solution nationally that does not work everywhere because of local conditions. "No Child Left Behind" is a textbook case of how to screw up by that book. It would be better if effective local solutions could be passed along both laterally and radially, so that people would have some options to try and the best ones would get replicated. We don't do much of that now.
By "the government", do you mean your local municipal council or city hall? Or the local school district board? Or the county commissioners? Or the state government? Or the federal government?

I'm not thrilled with the way my city is run, but I know my local alderman personally. I made it my business to meet her when I moved into her neighborhood, and I've called her several times to request city government services: to get a missing street sign replaced, to get city inspectors out to look at a neighboring business that didn't take good care of its property (I don't mind a messy back yard, to a point -- but they had rats there), and to ask how best to deal with some rowdy, scary neighbors (my alderman gave me the name of the neighborhood police officer, who said he'd had other noise and fighting complaints about them already and that he was on the verge of making a complaint to the landlord about "nuisance tenants").

All these things made my community, my neighborhood, a little better. All these things need government to do. Even if I wanted to spend the money myself, I couldn't just put up a street sign in a city, it has to be coordinated with the post office and the 911 dispatchers and so on. Sure, I had complained to the business personally, and the owner was dismissive; it needed the threat of fines to make him act. I am too much of a wimp to have approached the nuisance neighbors myself; I was happy to let the police handle that.

My city collects a 1% income tax and a 4.016% sales tax. As homeowners, we also pay about $1200 in property tax each year. That's a lot of money.

But the fire department was here within two minutes last summer to save our garage from burning down. (That alone was worth all the taxes we've paid.) The police department responds promptly. The rowdy neighbors were evicted. The business has cleaned up its property. Our alley was recently repaved, our trash is collected regularly, our water is clean and our sewers don't back up. When I volunteered in the state prison system and didn't have health insurance, the city health department provided free tuberculosis tests, free flu shots, and free hepatitis immunizations. I frequently visit the city-run free zoo, free science museum, and free art museum.

I get good value for my money, I think. Now, if they'd only put in the speed bumps I keep asking for....
I think local and household conditions make a difference in how people perceive the government. If you have a home, a job, health care, and a reasonably clean and safe environment then you're a lot more likely to feel that the system is working than people who don't enjoy those advantages.
What you say makes sense. And yet it is the Republican party that complains most about "the government" -- the party that supports policies that help big business and the wealthy more than it helps provide health care, a clean environment, social safety nets, etc.
I know, and that's really odd. I'm baffled that the party which used to be wary of big government has promoted the drastic expansion of government power and intrusion. I'm a liberal; I support social programs; but I do not trust the government or want it to be super-powerful. This makes me a rocker between liberal and conservative issues. I can see value in points on both sides, although more of my stances are liberal than are conservative.
Maybe the government could be or should be the community's agent, but it mostly isn't like that. I think whenever the decisions start being made outside the area affected, that's a problem; like corporate decisions affecting all the local stores. Another problem is when the people making the decisions have too little in common with the people affected by the decisions. Our political system tends to take fairly ordinary people and turn them into politicians, because the system is designed so that politicking is almost the only way to accomplish anything. And politicians have so little in common with ordinary people, they make a lot of bad decisions. To change that, we'd have to gut the system, take out the parts that make that transformation -- and we'd have to somehow hold down the juggernaut while we did that. Not an easy task, no.

The sneaky cool thing about democracy, though, is that it's very susceptible to grassroots changes. It's possible to create a groundswell of people doing the same things locally, that add up to big national changes. *sigh* It's how the neocons very methodically and effectively took over the Republican Party in 20-30 years.

*ponder* I want my country back. But, you know? I want it to be a country that haikujaguar and stryck can live with too. Because they're smart folks, and I care about them, and if they're miserable or terrified then something somewhere is probably wrong. It may be in a place I don't see, but just because I don't agree with them on everything doesn't mean they're always wrong. We need liberals for speed and spark and thinking outside the box. We need conservatives for stamina and memory and ... well, because it sucks to carry 2000 marbles without a box!

I want OUR America back. The one in "This land is your land, this land is my land."
In the squares of the city, In the shadow of a steeple;
By the relief office, I'd seen my people.
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking,
Is this land made for you and me?


I think we still live in the America that song was written of.
In any size community, the people who would be good at running the show are often too busy to take on another low-paying, thankless job. The people who want to lead are often in it just for the power, and so are not very responsive to the needs of the community. (I can think of a pagan land sanctuary that had that problem a couple of years ago....)

I want people in office who are interested in being public servants, yes, but not necessarily like "ordinary people". I want to be served by people who are smarter, better informed, more visionary and more diplomatic than I am. People who are better at this than me, otherwise I'd just want to do it myself.

The good thing about democracy is that you can change things. The bad thing, though, is that you are always going to want change. You are bound to eventually vote for the losing candidate. The majority may want something you don't particularly like, but you have to live with it anyway.
I think one of the first things we could do was make it harder to become a "career" politician, by further restricting how long people can stay in not just one office, but in all government offices.

When it becomes your career to be a politician, you stop making decisions based on what your community needs and start making decisions you think will keep the money coming in.
I think I'm leaning in that direction. There's always a spectrum there -- on one end, you get to keep talented people, but you get stuck with a lot of career jerks. On the other end, you don't get to keep talented people, but you avoid the problem of career politicians.
I agree with you about the problems with career politicians. But I am not so much in favor of term limits, myself.

This is because I have worked for several years now as a contract IT person. I never spend more than a year in one job. And I can see how inefficient that is. It takes a year to learn a corporate culture, to learn an industry, to get a real feel for the longterm consequences of the little decisions you make. I almost always leave a position wishing I could redo everything.

Also, I've seen the effect on a company of not having long-time employees. The last corporation I worked at is moving to outsourcing most of its IT operation, pressuring employees to take early retirement, bringing in temps and contract employees, etc. Nobody knows what's going on, nobody knows how we solved similar problems in the past, nobody remembers the nuances and little problems that turn around and bite you later....

Now, you might think that it's not right to compare the government to a large corporation, but I think it's a completely valid comparison. Most of the behind-the-scenes functions are exactly the same. Any governing body larger than a dozen people is going to need an IT department (even if it's just one guy). They're going to need HR, and PR, and financial planning, etc.

Worse, government needs longterm planning. If someone knows they're leaving office in a year or two and don't have a chance of being re-elected, they're not so likely to take an interest in what's going to happen five years from now.

So, while I do recognize the problems of career politicians, I think the drawbacks are even greater.

Re: Hmm...

ysabetwordsmith

12 years ago

Re: Hmm...

corivax

12 years ago

Re: Hmm...

ysabetwordsmith

12 years ago

>> In any size community, the people who would be good at running the show are often too busy to take on another low-paying, thankless job. The people who want to lead are often in it just for the power, and so are not very responsive to the needs of the community. <<

Too true.

(I can think of a pagan land sanctuary that had that problem a couple of years ago....)

...mmmmyeah.

>> I want to be served by people who are smarter, better informed, more visionary and more diplomatic than I am. <<

I meant "ordinary" in the sense of "not career politickers," instead of "average dumbass." I'd love to have smart people in office. the problem with that is people hate them. And the diplomatic people are usually so invested in making people like them that they aren't very good decision-makers. Finding both high intelligence and high sociability in one person is, alas, not common.

And almost all of them have found safer, saner, more gratifying things to do with their lives than go into politics.

You make a good summary of democracy. Sadly, all known governmental systems exhibit gaping flaws as soon as humans are inserted.