Elizabeth Barrette (ysabetwordsmith) wrote,
Elizabeth Barrette
ysabetwordsmith
  • Mood: busy

Discussing "Frozen"

I found this post about the movie "Frozen" and it got me thinking about what I liked and disliked about the movie.  It was beautifully illustrated and had lovely music.  It had two lead female characters.  The family relationships were the main storyline -- several families, in fact -- and the romantic aspects were sidelines.  That was great.  But ...

The rest is a muddle of things that could have been brilliant and instead all got in each other's way.

* Elsa has magic and it messes up her life, even though she does her best to manage it responsibly.  This is not a great way to teach kids that having unique talents is a good thing.

* Elsa started out gregarious, became an introvert due to assorted social pressure, and adapted to that.  But as soon as she left -- and she seemed pretty happy with her gorgeous ice palace at first -- people came running along to drag her back to a place where she'd been miserable.  This is not a great message for introverts, other solitary folks, or outcasts.  Or leaders whom people treat like beasts of burden.

* Two sisters, two love interests.  Only one partnership pans out, and it involves Anna switching from one man to another.  Elsa's responses to men are downright muddled.  There is ... no message here that makes sense.  It doesn't present Elsa as coherently asexual, demisexual, celibate, or even sexual.  Having a princess or queen who doesn't want  a guy would be great.  Having one who doesn't know how to interact with men (or anyone), not so great.  Having one sister taking up the attention of two guys, while the other girl winds up alone, also not so great.  

It wouldn't be so bad if there were other examples of those things, but there mostly aren't.  Especially there aren't in Disney princesses, who are usually all about getting the guy.  When you have one character who winds up alone, without a clear message on her choices, who in fact mostly just gets shoved around by other people ... yeesh.  

I wanted to fix this.  I looked at the fragging mess and realized that I wouldn't even know where to start.
Tags: entertainment, gender studies
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  • 13 comments
rix_scaedu

Spoiler Alert

rix_scaedu

January 18 2014, 05:40:36 UTC 7 years ago

I liked that the warning about strangers applied to new love interests and that "the handsome prince" turned out to be a rat.

In my view, Elsa's problem with her power was that she tried to control her power with fear instead of love. This is probably a good message but awfully hard to convey well.

I do agree with your comments about people wanting to drag Elsa back, but they did have other concerns - like everyone freezing to death.

My interpretation of the romance angle was one sister and two love interests. Elsa was too busy with the coronation, worried and afraid at all it would entail, to be interested in romance and then it seems that none of the available men grabbed her attention. I can live with the idea that a character can be too busy or focussed on something else to be interested in romance or sex. Or that they just aren't interested in any of the available options at this time. Maybe the good thing about Elsa's story was that they didn't make her choose because that's okay too.

(Having said that, it does leave an opening for a sequel.)
kimuro

kimuro

January 18 2014, 14:11:05 UTC 7 years ago

Those are my thoughts as well. Also, Elsa wasn't trying to manage her talents responsibly, she was trying to deny them and hide them. She had been taught that she was a monster and she desperately didn't want to be one.
ysabetwordsmith

Re: Spoiler Alert

ysabetwordsmith

January 20 2014, 06:47:18 UTC 7 years ago

>> I liked that the warning about strangers applied to new love interests and that "the handsome prince" turned out to be a rat. <<

That part as well done.

>> In my view, Elsa's problem with her power was that she tried to control her power with fear instead of love. This is probably a good message but awfully hard to convey well. <<

I agree that was a problem. It came through. It just didn't follow through very well in the later parts of the movie.
lyonesse

lyonesse

January 18 2014, 05:46:24 UTC 7 years ago

i kind of liked it that elsa's love life wasn't really there at all. no reason her personal life should be at the forefront of her story. i particularly liked it that she wasn't jealous of her sister -- that would have annoyed me.

i guess that is to say: no message is fine with me. a role model who doesn't have it figured out? i'm good with that! we could use more models of mess and imperfection; we're going to see a lot of it in ourselves :)
kelkyag

kelkyag

January 18 2014, 06:30:15 UTC 7 years ago

This, yes. My little sister started dating long before I did. Not everyone has to hit all the same "milestones" on the same timeline, or in the same order, or at all.

"Other people will mess up your life because they don't know how to deal with your talents" is, sadly, a lesson some kids will wind up learning. A Disney heroine who doesn't get stripped of her magic powers by the end of the movie for her own good? Oddly reassuring.
siege

siege

January 18 2014, 08:36:02 UTC 7 years ago

Elsa was supposed to be the villain, as in the original faery tale -- until her songs were recorded, and the director realized that the victory of self-acceptance demanded an entirely different sort of story. Cue calling up all the storyboarders and script writers and saying "Reverse course, she's not the villain, she's the victim!"

So the story turned into rescuing the queen from her own suffering, and the villainy had to come from somewhere else.
ysabetwordsmith

Well...

ysabetwordsmith

January 18 2014, 18:06:10 UTC 7 years ago

I have no problem with switching character roles. I think having "love at first sight" turn into a disaster for once was a great idea.

*snicker*WEASEL-town*snicker*

However, the change of direction may have contributed to the muddle of characterization and tangle of plotlines that wrecked the last part of the movie.
siliconshaman

siliconshaman

January 18 2014, 11:57:14 UTC 7 years ago

I can't reply much about this, since I haven't watched the film yet [it's on my list].. but I would point out that life is frequently a muddled mess and people rarely do make as much sense as they do in stories. Perhaps Elsa's responses to men are incoherent because she hasn't decided what she is yet... From what I've seen of the trailers, she's young and a princess isn't going to have much opportunity for normal socialisation.
catsittingstill

catsittingstill

January 18 2014, 13:09:22 UTC 7 years ago

I did like what your linked article had to say--that it's a big thing that here is a Disney Princess who has mental issues like anxiety and depression that lead her to hurt people, but is still a good person trying to do the right thing and able to learn and grow.

There were a lot of great messages in this movie. "Women can save each other and themselves." "Love at first sight is not trustworthy." "Power and evil are different things." "Don't suppress your talents; learn to use them." And the first three are very unusual for a Disney movie.

I want a copy when it comes out on DVD.
kelkyag

kelkyag

January 18 2014, 20:03:46 UTC 7 years ago Edited:  January 18 2014, 20:03:58 UTC

And that last one is unusual for a female in a Disney movie.
ysabetwordsmith

Thoughts

ysabetwordsmith

January 19 2014, 01:09:01 UTC 7 years ago

>> I did like what your linked article had to say--that it's a big thing that here is a Disney Princess who has mental issues like anxiety and depression that lead her to hurt people, but is still a good person trying to do the right thing and able to learn and grow. <<

I agree, those are good points ...

>> There were a lot of great messages in this movie. "Women can save each other and themselves." "Love at first sight is not trustworthy." "Power and evil are different things." "Don't suppress your talents; learn to use them." And the first three are very unusual for a Disney movie. <<

... and these are good messages.

>> I want a copy when it comes out on DVD. <<

It's your folding vote; put it where you mean it.
purplevenus

But

purplevenus

January 19 2014, 18:08:35 UTC 7 years ago

Why is it important that her sexuality be defined?
Why is vague a problem?
ysabetwordsmith

Re: But

ysabetwordsmith

January 19 2014, 18:18:01 UTC 7 years ago

1) Sexuality becomes relevant if it makes a difference to the storyline.

* If Elsa is heterosexual but hampered by her upbringing, then she might be interested in one of the young men. Anna taking up both of them is therefore consuming resources that could be of value to Elsa. Sisters do fight over male attention, plus there's the fact that the advantaged nonmagical girl is getting double while the disadvantaged magical girl gets nothing.

* If Elsa is lesbian, asexual, demisexual, or mindfully celibate then there is no conflict and it's perfectly okay for Anna to take up two men's attention because Elsa doesn't want it. And each of those identities would aspect the character in different ways.

* All of those features get represented differently in entertainment. It's very rare to have a female character who might be anything other than heterosexual and interested in romance. To broach that territory without being clear where it's going is frustrating.

2) Vagueness is often a flaw in storytelling. It can be distracting, confusing, or annoying. It makes the story harder to follow.