Elizabeth Barrette (ysabetwordsmith) wrote,
Elizabeth Barrette
ysabetwordsmith

  • Mood:

A Problem with the Prime Directive

... very well illustrated.

My version is a bit simpler: 

* If you do not know about bad things happening, have no way to know, and have no way to prevent them, then you are not morally culpable.  Say, if they're happening on the other side of the galaxy from where you are.

* If you DO know about bad things happening, have options to intervene or at least warn people, but choose not to do so, then you are morally culpable for that inaction.  Say, if they're happening on the other side of the galaxy from where you live but have purposely gone to spy on people.  It's like when someone runs screaming down a street while being slowly murdered, and dozens of people hear the screams, but nobody does anything.

Really not coming across as an advanced civilization there.  
Tags: art, networking, reading, science fiction
Subscribe

Recent Posts from This Journal

  • Poem: "The Little Shadow Across the Grass"

    This poem is spillover from the April 20, 2021 Bonus Fishbowl. It was inspired by prompts from janetmiles and fuzzyred. It also fills the…

  • Birdfeeding

    Today is sunny and mild. I fed the birds. I've seen house finches and sparrows. I raked the firepit and laid a chimney of sticks in it. We broke up…

  • Community Building Tip: Outdoor Movies

    For my current set of tips, I'm using the list " 101 Small Ways You Can Improve Your City. 79. Screen a movie outdoors. An impromptu movie…

  • Post a new comment

    Error

    default userpic

    Your IP address will be recorded 

    When you submit the form an invisible reCAPTCHA check will be performed.
    You must follow the Privacy Policy and Google Terms of use.
  • 23 comments
Hmm... so, damned if you do, damned if you don't? I mean, revealing your existence to a primitive non-technological race also has consequences... extreme culture shock can be just as fatal over time.
Yeah, as Star Trek fans from way back, this is a thorny conundrum that my husband and I have debated back and forth ...

The fundamental concept of the Prime Directive (LEAVE THEIR SHIT ALONE) is not really a bad one, especially considering the drastic and horrible consequences of interference or mere contact on our own planet (genocide, cultural devastation, disease). But then there's the terrible catch-22 of having antibiotics, food technology, etc. that could save many people's lives, and not sharing them -- can you sacrifice thousands or millions of lives on a policy of non-interference? But are you willing to accept the thousands or millions of deaths that may result from interference? We still don't have easy answers in the world today.
If you haven't figured out how to intervene safely, then it's moral to stand back and not look for trouble in the first place. But if you're going out looking for other sapient people, that necessarily entangles your moral concerns with their existence. Don't do that if you're not willing and able to follow through.

Re: Well...

laylalawlor

August 27 2013, 21:20:03 UTC 7 years ago Edited:  August 27 2013, 21:21:10 UTC

The trouble, though, is that even allowing for a level of human development that would prevent the most egregious human error (like relief workers introducing cholera into earthquake-striken Haiti) it's not always evident how to intervene, or whether one should. If there's an asteroid about to strike the planet, sure, that's pretty obvious and easy (and even in the show itself, that kind of situation wasn't an actual moral quandary -- if you can easily intervene without showing yourself to the locals, then the Prime Directive's not stopping you from doing so).

But mostly it'd be a choice between the best of potentially bad options. It's not really a lack of money or military might that makes situations like Syria so hard to resolve internationally. Even if your intervening civilization has a higher level of enlightenment than we do, I'm not sure what they could do to "fix" Egypt or North Korea or the Native American genocide (at least without severe side effects -- look how well it worked out with Iraq and Saddam Hussein).

And you're also going to have unintended consequences of seemingly innocuous acts, like: you'd think the smallpox vaccine would have been a pure unmitigated good, and it was mostly good, but it also led directly to a skyrocketing incidence of syphilis-related dementia and other late-stage syphilis symptoms. Turned out the high fevers of smallpox burned syphilis out of the body, so without that mechanism to keep it in check, it ran rampant in the later part of the 19th century.

Do you give people the antibiotics and explain about the germ theory of disease, and risk upsetting their entire traditional medicine and belief system? Do you give them guns to protect themselves from the giant rampaging predators on their planet, and come back in 50 years to find they're making war on each other instead? Or do you protect them from the predators yourself, and risk having them become dependent on you, not to mention the moral repugnance of treating them like children incapable of making their own decisions ...

Even if you are able to give them your medical or other beneficial technology without having any immediate repercussions, it will certainly change their direction as a people. Is that morally right?

Basically I can see why a far-future society might have plausibly come to the point where "you're going to have to work out your problems on your own" seemed like a more sensible option than a policy of unchecked interventionism.
There are other options. If you generally believe that your species does not yet have the skills to make contact safely below a certain level of development, then you should be staying far away from those species, not spying on them. If your skills in contact are lacking, you might try identifying why and what goes wrong and how to improve your own skills so that you can do better in the future. Which humans really haven't bothered to do yet, but it's still an idea.
I see your point, but I suspect that any species insufficiently socially developed to contact less advanced worlds safely, isn't going to be developed enough to know they shouldn't...

and yeah, given that humans are starting to develop warp drive, if I was president of some hypothetical galactic federation I'd be thinking of a minimum 50 light year evacuation and quarantine zone around our system.
Not doable. If we get out of our system before Arcturus goes nova, humans are guaranteed to find evidence of civilized, intelligent life.
Hmm, I wonder how hard it would be to trigger a star going nova if it's already heading that way.

Re: No...

siege

7 years ago

Re: No...

siliconshaman

7 years ago

Re: No...

ysabetwordsmith

7 years ago

Re: No...

siliconshaman

7 years ago

Re: No...

ysabetwordsmith

7 years ago

Re: No...

siliconshaman

7 years ago

I can see that it's one thing to let another species/culture sort out their own problems/develop on their own path, etc, and a totally different thing to leave them to the untender mercies of something totally outside their control or influence that they have no hope dodging, ever. Yes, negligent homicide.
Exactly. Those are different circumstances.

Of course, some things like genocide are different yet again. Super-powerful aliens have intervened more than once in Star Trek to prevent humans and one of their enemies from fighting. Humans bitched about that; they didn't like someone more powerful telling them what to do. But it did still lower the body count.

What matters isn't just the action itself, but the approach. I think there are better solutions than what the writers usually pick.

*chuckle* Which means I'm free to write those myself. Star Trek is still my favorite series for inspiration because every iteration of it has a habit of walking right up to the coolest ideas, then stopping short.
I heard about a fascinating discussion in that respect. Some Indian women and South African women met to discuss political change, and one of the discussion points brought up was that, when political change occurs through violence, it sets a stage that "when you don't get what you want, you fight."

Obviously, that's a huge oversimplification of the situation. But it made me think deeply about a lot of things, most especially when is it right to fight? There was certainly a great deal of oppression and injustice in South Africa - was that "enough" reason to fight? Was it "better" or "worse" than what happened in India? Neither of these questions have objective answers. There are answers that are strongly appealing to various people, but no objective answers.

If I had the power to stop people from fighting, I'm not sure I'd have anywhere near the wisdom to use it. Especially - well, I heard one quote that I heartily approve of, "Peace is not the absence of fighting, but the presence of justice."

(Where "justice" is the notion that people should be treated fairly - I was stunned to learn that, and that, at a surprisingly high age. I'd mislearned it from context and never thought about it much.)
>> one of the discussion points brought up was that, when political change occurs through violence, it sets a stage that "when you don't get what you want, you fight." <<

That's true. It's a dangerous precedent. There are better problem-solving methods. However, those are not always available. Violence is a social safety valve; it kicks in when things have gone seriously wrong. Like a fever, it can do more harm than good.

>> But it made me think deeply about a lot of things, most especially when is it right to fight? <<

* If someone is trying to kill you or wipe out your way of life. Fight or die; that kind of opponent is unlikely to listen to reason. Effective resistance can be achieved at a much lower skill level with violence than with peace, although peace is preferable if you have the necessary experts.

* If the situation is so soul-destroying that not fighting makes you hate yourself.

>> Especially - well, I heard one quote that I heartily approve of, "Peace is not the absence of fighting, but the presence of justice." <<

Peace isn't just about justice. It's about having the skills and resources to resolve life's inevitable conflicts without abusing other human beings or oneself in the process.
Well, I don't want to argue the point much, but I'd say the "presence of justice" could easily include "methods by which inevitable conflicts are non-abusively resolved". Hm. Oh. And, I'm thinking of "justice" as a living thing, a concept revered, rather than as an instantaneous "there is justice now, for as long as it lasts."
That sounds like the Egyptian concept of ma'at which is sometimes translated as "justice."

Re: Yes...

johnpalmer

7 years ago

Re: Yes...

ysabetwordsmith

7 years ago

The comic is pretty fun, but I found it a bit disquieting. I get something of a 'we have the bigger guns because we're the good guys' feeling from how the author describes the Empire from which the main character hails. (of course the bad guys can never be allowed to have guns as good, then they might overpower the hero) Then the protagonist mocks the Federation-surrogate for being just as condescending and elitist in their own way as he is being toward them.

It definitely reminds me of the old days of science fiction where humans ruled the cosmos just because they were the race with 'the mostest', and aliens were pushovers and wimps.

Recent Posts from This Journal

  • Poem: "The Little Shadow Across the Grass"

    This poem is spillover from the April 20, 2021 Bonus Fishbowl. It was inspired by prompts from janetmiles and fuzzyred. It also fills the…

  • Birdfeeding

    Today is sunny and mild. I fed the birds. I've seen house finches and sparrows. I raked the firepit and laid a chimney of sticks in it. We broke up…

  • Community Building Tip: Outdoor Movies

    For my current set of tips, I'm using the list " 101 Small Ways You Can Improve Your City. 79. Screen a movie outdoors. An impromptu movie…