Elizabeth Barrette (ysabetwordsmith) wrote,
Elizabeth Barrette
ysabetwordsmith

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Robot Sex

Here's an amusing tidbit about moral attitudes regarding robot sex.

My view: Having sex with another sentient being is cheating, if you have accepted monogamous parameters in your relationship.  Having sex with an inanimate object is not cheating, because it is not a person.

What do you think?
Tags: cyberspace theory, discussion, gender studies
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I was thinking about something similar, though it's also a kind of an interesting issue.

I've seen people who feel that they were "cheated upon" because they found lovers who used porn, or who simply masturbated.

An acquaintance of mine once said something wise: that, between two consenting, sane, adults, "fair" is what they agree is fair, even if it appears wildly unfair (especially if it appears "unbalanced") to others. So on the one hand, I'm horrified by "OMG you used a sex toy without me! That's *CHEATING*!" but I acknowledge that if people actually have given informed consent that this wouldn't happen, it's a viable agreement for them.

Me? I don't find a masturbation session on a the holodeck or with a human-ish android (not the phone OS, the other kind) to be "cheating" but I also have an oddball view of relationships. But I could see people who would feel that way, even if they were okay with porn and masturbation and heavy fantasy about other people.

Also...

ysabetwordsmith

7 years ago

Re: Also...

johnpalmer

7 years ago

>> I think if you're having sex with something, rather than masturbating with it, then for the purposes of the act it's a person. <<

That makes sense.

>> We've been rewatching the later Trek series, which could be seen as a speculative chapter in the story of how sentientkind continues to look for nonpersons it can mistreat and discover that they've either become persons, or were persons all the time; first other members of its own species, then aliens, then androids, then holograms. <<

0_o Sadly so.

>> Nobody ever as far as I know tried to have sex with a Borg (Seven of Nine excepted, but she was an exception anyway) but cyborgs would fall between aliens and androids, I'd say. <<

It was pretty heavily implied that the Borg Queen was sexually interested in both Picard and Data, and didn't care to take no for an answer. The way she was molesting Data on camera doesn't leave a whole lot of guessing what happened off-camera. Of course, impaired consent is a different issue from lovemaking.

>> Sex is a collaborative act; if there's collaboration, then there's animation, and the toaster or whatever is perfectly entitled to sulk if you scream someone else's name at the climactic moment. And vice versa, of course. <<

True.
If the android is self aware, it's still cheating. If not, it's just an animated sex toy.
Depends. Is my partner open about it ("I want sex more often than you, and masturbating gets old, so I wondered if you'd mind if I...") or does it behind my back?

I think what would bother me most if my partner spent enough time with a sex bot that I felt it seriously cut into time we would have spent together, or similar signs that they'd prefer a sex bot, and only keep me around for convenience or by habit.
You've got good points there.
And of course there's the problem of agency. If the robot is sentient and Three Laws compliant, it doesn't have choice in the matter, which can lead to all sorts of Wrong.

This is going to end up being another chapter in For Your Safety, I can tell now...
... which is why Asimov came up with the Zeroth Law. Which of course caused all sorts of problems, but such is the nature of, well, nature.
Asimov's laws are rules for slaves. Slavery is harmful both to owned and owner. If someone cannot refuse consent, then having sex with them is wrong as it qualifies as rape. All of that is bad stuff.
Nod. That brings up some fascinating concepts, of course. When does a robot become a person?

(Sagan was the one who brought up the idea to me that if someone killed an alien ambassador, we'd call it "murder" even though it wasn't the unlawful killing of a *human*. I think he may have used the notion of "person", but whether he did or didn't, that's the notion I use.)

We could make an amazing simulacrum of humanity with good responses and the right vocal timber and so forth. And we might find that it's "pleased" to "serve" by its programming, but when would its spirit be screaming to be free? (You can use spirit metaphorically or literally, as far as I'm concerned.)

When would we be engaging in the anthropomorphic fallacy - and when would we be denying essential personhood?

Re: Yes...

ysabetwordsmith

7 years ago

Re: Yes...

johnpalmer

7 years ago

Re: Yes...

ysabetwordsmith

7 years ago

The question of sentience does bother me a lot. As a magic-worker, I do occasionally run into this question with magically constructed entities, which may have wills of their own, but which don't always count as people. To me, there are three capacities which define a person: Self-will or agency (can this entity make decisions for itself?); emotional ability (does this entity feel Love/empathy and pain/distress?); and growth capacity (can this entity increase its ability over time through its own efforts?). In the simplest form, a creature that can make speech and take responsibility for things by its own choice is effectively a person, and removing any of these three abilities (agency, emotion, growth) is a crime.

However, then we run into the question of limits. No thing should have unlimited growth without responsibility and acknowledgment of others' rights; the greater a being, the more it must be able to limit its power when interacting with fragile things. So we start off as children, weak but enthusiastic, and must learn how to control ourselves with grace and finesse as we grow. Those who continue to throw self-control out the window are in error in some way.

Basically, Asimov's robots were not moral beings if they didn't have the Three Laws to guide them, and any of them could run amok if given the wrong instruction or if they came to an erroneous conclusion. Yet his robot stories included robots that, even without human emotion, still felt distress or improvement based on their situation and memories, such as when thinking of an old friend.

Asimov also wrote of robots built to discover ways to have machines safe for humans that didn't need the Three Laws. The answer given was to limit them to activities, behaviors, and risks that humans need not fear, such as a robotic bird that eats mosquitos.
Tanith Lee and Isaac Asimov both had very decided notions about that and the first Scales of Justice book (by Jarod Comstock) revolved around a killer robot whose lawyer used the battered woman defense. (She - the robot - had been raped).

As for my opinion ... I think it's the emotional capacity/ sentience level that makes a difference imho.

-1- Is the robot nothing more than a (so-called) marital aid?
-2- Is it self-aware and can it make choices?

If the robot is simply "fully functional" but otherwise ... well ... just a mechanical humanoid, then I don't see it as anything but a glorified vibrator.

If the robot is a self-aware companion then ... yes, I think it is cheating on the spouse because that moves it out of the realm of ... well, prostitution (although w/o the dangers of stds). And into the very real danger of alienation of affections. (Although, there are men out there who fall in love with their inflatable dolls.)

just my opinion - ymmv
My feeling is that cheating is whatever the involved parties decide it is. Including, if sentient, the non-human.
Yes.

I don't feel it's necessary for society as a whole to come up with what is "cheating" and what is "acceptable" and then require every relationship to conform to that standard. I am a minority opinion on this one, albeit probably not a minority among our host's readers. :)

siege

August 13 2013, 01:16:44 UTC 7 years ago Edited:  August 13 2013, 01:17:10 UTC

The question of cheating in a relationship is to me a question of expectations and limits. The question of sexual activity with a person has to involve questions of consent and limitation -- and answers to those questions.

If someone feels cheated on because their partner masturbated, what they're usually dealing with is a question of why they feel inadequate or separated from their lover. The question of sex with robots, personhood aside, is pretty much exactly this. Will this partner be alienated by the activity, or will the relationship as such be healthy?

But hey, if a robot is what you lust after, I don't mind... as long as my lover comes home to me.

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