busyThe thing is ... there are people with multiple minority traits. There are gay Asians. There are autistic Pagans. There are poor black lesbians in wheelchairs. And those people sometimes feel overlooked because the stacking effect can change their experiences so much that a single-trait character doesn't feel much like them. I've read essays upholding this end of the debate but couldn't find one to use as an example here.
My stance is that I write characters as they need to be. I have a lot of characters who are female/other trait because roughly half of humanity is female. Other combinations are less common but also appear. Brelig is a normal-sized Duurludirj man (which we'd consider a dwarf) and missing one hand. Maryam Smith is African-British, genderqueer, duoclass, and of illegitimate birth. I'm more likely to focus on minority protagonists than to use them as filler, something my audience seems to enjoy if you look over what's been published. I don't tend to write a lot of straight white Christian men, though, so the core of the mainstream doesn't get a lot of traffic from me. Meh.
Also, if I haven't specified a trait in canon, yes it could fall outside the mainstream. Characters have done this to me often enough, and my cultural awareness is diverse enough, that there's no permanent default. They may pop out an uncommon religion or sexual orientation or invisible handicap or whatnot, and they may do that after two stories or six poems or twenty years. I'm more likely to mention physical features such as skin tone and gender up front, because they're noticeable points of diversity. But I've also had characters refuse to reveal their sex/gender, and not just the ones for whom "I'm not telling" is their gender.
I'm interested in other people's perspectives on the matter of single vs. stacked traits.
June 12 2013, 17:39:15 UTC 8 years ago
Definitely true for me. I can't identify with a LOT of gay/trans protagonists, because being gay or trans is their Big Thing, and I can't identify with that. I was furious when I found out I was gay... mostly because I was dealing with the multiplicity and my gender at the same time, and I was REALLY FUCKING TIRED of being "special." Say what you will about the quality of 'Set This House in Order,' I found it wonderful to see a multi that was trans and just couldn't care, because they had so much other shit going down.
Multi representation on its own is awful. Hell, yesterday, I involuntarily bellowed, "SON OF A BITCH," while watching Batman with friends because goddammit, the villain was multiple, with an evil alter and Jekyll/Hyde set-up. THANKS GUYS. I just avoid all multi work now, because I know I will just get mad, and anyway, good luck seeing any multis who aren't white, predominantly straight, and evil.
--Rogan
June 12 2013, 22:32:59 UTC 8 years ago Edited: June 12 2013, 22:33:12 UTC
Two-Face always was the worst kind of cliche. At least most Batman villains were characters and not just stereotypes.
June 13 2013, 01:13:45 UTC 8 years ago
I actually felt deep sympathy for Big Bad Harv during the Two-Face two-parter. I still feel like if those poor bastards had gotten their hands on some proper care and system governance, the whole debacle could've been avoided, they would've turned out okay, and then Gotham would've had a multi... er, whatever public office Harvey Dent was going for. Maybe they could've even fought for revamping the Gotham mental health system, so Arkham Asylum could actually be competent, and clean up Gotham's streets THAT way.
AND WOULDN'T THAT HAVE BEEN AWESOME.
--Rogan
Thoughts
June 13 2013, 01:34:17 UTC 8 years ago
I'm really glad that you are doing that. Somebody needs to tell people that it's okay to be multi, you can be multi and healthy, here are some peepskillz to go do that with.
Also, I had much the same reaction watching the Batman movie with TwoFace, especially since you can really see the damage when Joker takes a verbal ax to the crack that was already forming. Great, fabulous, let's take the nascent PTSD and survivor guilt and rachet that up to full-blown dissociation. Poor Harvey, he was such a decent innocent guy before the shit hit the fan, he didn't know how to cope with so much rage and pain other than to push it away.
And then they killed him. Really not helping folks with mental issues believe that survival is possible. 0_o
>> I actually felt deep sympathy for Big Bad Harv during the Two-Face two-parter. I still feel like if those poor bastards had gotten their hands on some proper care and system governance, the whole debacle could've been avoided, they would've turned out okay, and then Gotham would've had a multi... er, whatever public office Harvey Dent was going for. Maybe they could've even fought for revamping the Gotham mental health system, so Arkham Asylum could actually be competent, and clean up Gotham's streets THAT way. <<
I would read the hell out of that story.
>> AND WOULDN'T THAT HAVE BEEN AWESOME. <<
Why yes, yes it would.
See now, this is why I dislike discrimination. It narrows the scope of the stories that get told. There are all these other stories about multiples that could be told, that aren't seeing the light of screen or print or anything else. Because people think multi = evil and that's just stupid. I want to have those other stories.
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June 13 2013, 02:55:02 UTC 8 years ago
I'm really glad that you are doing that. Somebody needs to tell people that it's okay to be multi, you can be multi and healthy, here are some peepskillz to go do that with.
Yeah. You'd be surprised and saddened how many just need the reassurance that yes, they have a right to exist unmolested, it's okay.
And then they killed him. Really not helping folks with mental issues believe that survival is possible. 0_o
I KNOW, RIGHT? Seriously, in media, if you're multi, you're pretty much screwed. In media, the only way people seem to be allowed to be multi AND not completely at other people's mercy is to be evil. Which is pretty messed up, if you think hard about it.
There are all these other stories about multiples that could be told, that aren't seeing the light of screen or print or anything else. Because people think multi = evil and that's just stupid. I want to have those other stories.
So true. It's a source of deep frustration for me that I seem incapable of writing multiplicity; all the tropes and frustrations have gotten so embedded in my skull, I can't seem to write fictional multiples myself. I try to make up the difference by making nonfiction comics about it, but still, SO MADDENING.
--Rogan
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June 13 2013, 03:38:45 UTC 8 years ago
Saddened, yes; surprised, no. I've spent a lot of time telling various kinds of people that they have a right to exist, I can see them existing, they have a right not to be mentally or physically violated, and people who say otherwise are dicks who probably should not be listened to.
>> Seriously, in media, if you're multi, you're pretty much screwed. In media, the only way people seem to be allowed to be multi AND not completely at other people's mercy is to be evil. Which is pretty messed up, if you think hard about it. <<
And that's not an accident; it's an expression of how society feels about mentally challenged or neurovariant people. It wants them not to exist. It wants to scapegoat them.
Well, fuck that noise. I call stop-trope. This needs to be not done anymore until there's enough other stuff built up that it doesn't hurt people just by existing.
>> So true. It's a source of deep frustration for me that I seem incapable of writing multiplicity; all the tropes and frustrations have gotten so embedded in my skull, I can't seem to write fictional multiples myself. <<
Wow, that sucks enormously. Internalized isms always do. :''''(
>> I try to make up the difference by making nonfiction comics about it, but still, SO MADDENING. <<
You make splendid and useful resources; I am glad to have them.
You seem to do well at outlining the kinds of stories that *could* be told. Feel free to drop things like that into any of my prompt calls if they fit the theme. Oh hey look, July 2 fishbowl has "unlikely heroes & implausible villains." Maybe think about some ideas for functional multiples who aren't evil and don't die? Who knows, if we come up with something good, maybe you could illustrate it.
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June 13 2013, 04:33:52 UTC 8 years ago
Yeah, the closest I've gotten is a system who masquerades as a singlet superhero with a haphazard power set only one of them can utilize effectively. They're known for being surprisingly good with mind-controllers. Home field advantage, you know. I should do more with them...
You seem to do well at outlining the kinds of stories that *could* be told. Feel free to drop things like that into any of my prompt calls if they fit the theme. Oh hey look, July 2 fishbowl has "unlikely heroes & implausible villains." Maybe think about some ideas for functional multiples who aren't evil and don't die? Who knows, if we come up with something good, maybe you could illustrate it.
I really like this idea! I meant to hit up your dreams fishbowl, but I somehow managed to JUST miss it, much to my annoyance. I'll be sure to hit up your next one! I can at least INSPIRE work about multis!
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June 13 2013, 22:54:14 UTC 8 years ago
As an example, I know that even the specific and limited ability to change the color of a single small spot on a nearby surface could be used to play mind tricks on people, or communicate (in code or otherwise), or even to obscure visual details (like blotting out or altering part of a phone number or password). And what if that could be expanded to a full-on alteration across the entire target surface, given the right user?
So there are ways to involve specific skills, as well as integrative skills. Perhaps this hero group needs to improve teamwork and leadership skills, or even work on simultaneous fronting, to gain more effective use of their powers.
That'd be a heck of a storyline, I think.
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June 14 2013, 03:38:29 UTC 8 years ago
I think I'd set it so that the members had different skills. Another member might be able to use the same base ability, but not as well, and there might be certain techniques that only one member could do.
>> So there are ways to involve specific skills, as well as integrative skills. Perhaps this hero group needs to improve teamwork and leadership skills, or even work on simultaneous fronting, to gain more effective use of their powers. <<
It would probably start with a system in chaos. They would have to learn how to work together and discover their talents. Then they would logically be able to combine their efforts -- or divide them effectively to cope with several enemies at once. That would give multitasking a whole new meaning.
The origin story would be important, and the character's background in general. Most superheroes, like most multiples, have survived some pretty awful stuff. Then there's the question of how fast can they get out of the hot spot once the superhero stuff engages -- are they safe fairly soon, or is someone hunting them and trying to kill them for quite a while?
I'd want a good range of different superhero powers, too; probably slanted toward the metaphysical rather than purely physical. I don't think in this case that I want a shapeshifting character, because most multiples can't shapeshift and I want a relatable character. So I think that tones down things like speed and strength; they might get a little enhancement but probably not a lot. I could go with fast healing, though, that's always useful and some humans have a measure of it.
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June 22 2013, 01:16:32 UTC 8 years ago
No. The powers are innate with the vessel, and would have existed regardless of plural state. However, using them requires a certain concentration that not everyone can pull off. (The powers involve absorbing copious amounts of damage and deflecting some of it through a shockwave. For it to have any practical effect requires the vessel take what would normally be a lethal amount of trauma... and it can't deflect ALL of the damage. So the powers are intrinsically risky to use.)
If some members were shut down in some way, would any of them have great skill or power with a particular ability?
Not really. As I mentioned, the powers are innate with the vessel; if their face member goes down, some of the other members can sort of use them... but not at all reliably. And seeing how the powers work, that can be dangerous.
The skill can be used in more minor ways and still be helpful--it gives the system an illusion of being tougher than usual, when really they're just deflecting damage that's too small to create a shockwave. In theory, they could mimic a form of very minor, erratic telekinesis by doing something like--I don't know, smashing their hand against a wall hard enough to make tiny mini-shockwaves to push a very light object ahead. Definitely not the most intuitive use of them though.
I might actually practice that, though, have different system members using the powers in different, seemingly trivial ways that, if used properly, can make a big difference.
--Rogan
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June 14 2013, 03:44:11 UTC 8 years ago
That sounds cool.
>> They're known for being surprisingly good with mind-controllers. Home field advantage, you know. <<
*LAUGH* And they have the enemy outnumbered.
I had something in mind, similarly, with someone trying dreamtheft on a writer. Oh hey, you are outnumbered and on my turf and what, you didn't expect my characters to tear apart your team whilst I turned into a dragon and ate you? Silly overlord, next time do your homework first.
>> I should do more with them... <<
Yes, that would be awesome.
>> I really like this idea! <<
Yay!
>> I meant to hit up your dreams fishbowl, but I somehow managed to JUST miss it, much to my annoyance. <<
Alas, that happened to several folks. For future reference, if you're not sure you can make it to the open fishbowl, you can leave me advance prompts.
>> I'll be sure to hit up your next one! I can at least INSPIRE work about multis! <<
I look forward to it. A multi superhero would certainly fit.
Re: Thoughts
June 20 2013, 07:26:12 UTC 8 years ago
So true. It's a source of deep frustration for me that I seem incapable of writing multiplicity; all the tropes and frustrations have gotten so embedded in my skull, I can't seem to write fictional multiples myself.
caught my eye. Need help? My fandom sometimes writes the main character as sort of multiple (it's complicated), with varying interpretations. What would you rather see done with that?
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June 20 2013, 20:12:41 UTC 8 years ago
--Rogan
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June 20 2013, 21:32:24 UTC 8 years ago
I don't think anyone ever wrote multiple!Jak as a multiple system. It's... you know the pattern where people write a real minority experience as if it's a fantasy experience, or a close-to-real experience as if it's completely unreal? Fandom has treated Jak like that. (To be fair, it's not as if you could interpret canon as portraying a typical multiple system at all.)
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June 21 2013, 09:23:45 UTC 8 years ago