Elizabeth Barrette (ysabetwordsmith) wrote,
Elizabeth Barrette
ysabetwordsmith

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Why I Interrupt People

If you want to know why I often interrupt people in conversations, this is the main reason. I spent many years in schools where, because I have a vagina, I could either not speak or I could just belt out what I wanted to say whenever I felt like speaking. I chose the latter.  It got me in trouble, but it also enabled me to actually take part in the education allegedly being offered to me.  Most people with vaginas choose the former, and only speak when permitted, when it is considered polite. Since I don't actually have a feminine personality, I'm perfectly fluent in the kind of verbal football that guys play; in fact, I'm also perfectly willing to bring a hockey stick and body-check them skidding across the ice into the goal. People find this annoying. I myself would prefer a more genteel mode of conversation, but I don't get much chance to practice it, so I figure I'm justified in not giving a fuck that people dislike the collective results of their nearly universal speech behavior habits.

You want me to shut up because I have a vagina? Two words: hockey stick. Also, fuck you.
Tags: education, gender studies, linguistics, networking
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As a teacher in a treatment center for troubled teens, I battle this all of the time. I have to fight to get the girls to speak up in front of the guys, and for the guys to not interrupt them.

One of my favorite classes is the all-girls class. Nearly everyone speaks out, and has insightful things to say.

In my mixed gender classes, I have to call on girls specifically, and often stop boys from thundering over them. On occasions where the boy blurts anyway, I try to follow up with the girl. "Do you concur with Johnny's answer? Do you have anything to add or disagree with?" I try to show I am interested in her thoughts.

I've had boys say, "What Mary's trying to say is..." (like in the article) and I've had to say, "Let Mary tell me what she's thinking. Your paperwork does not indicate that you're a registered telepath. And even if you were, no invasion of her privacy."

It's so easy as a teacher to want to get the lesson done in the shortest amount of time, that if you don't watch it, you start relying on the blurters (usually male) and forget to draw out your deeper thinkers, both female and male.
I know the "Talking Stick" is pretty hokey, but it does address this problem.
I despise those things. They're unbearable for me. I think I've only ever willingly used one once.
Oh, I know. They rather make my eyes roll.

But the thing is- it does WORK. The pushy people have a distinct cue when they have to shut up (and can be told to do so when they ignore it), and the more retiring have a distinct cue that says TALK NOW and people will listen.

More subjective approaches do not seem to do as good a job with either of these.
It works for some people. It's ideal for people of moderate habit who need a clear stop-and-go signal; for talkative people who actively want a reminder of whose turn it is; and for retiring people who welcome a prompt and a space to speak. It's a useful tool to have in the box, but it does not work for everyone.

It does not work for the kind of retiring people who panic or feel pressured when put on the spot to speak. They will not come, or they will stutter and freak out. I have seen this. It is not pretty.

It does not work for the kind of talkative people who experience increasing pressure the longer they do not speak. This is like trying not to pee, or worse, trying not to blink. The longer it goes -- and with more than two or three people, a Talking Stick takes for-fucking-EVER to go anywhere -- the more miserable the discomfort becomes. A person quickly becomes consumed by the misery rather than able to concentrate on the content of the conversation. This is me. I avoid such situations if I can. If not, I quickly park my body and vacate for more habitable conceptual territory. This is not safe or pleasant for me or anyone else. There are other people whose experiences are similar.

There may be other people or reasons why a Talking Stick will not work.
I am coming from the retiring end of the spectrum, while you are clearly the reverse. Cool! Differences are good!

If I am in a talking-stick space, and I don't want to talk much, I can make a terse comment and pass it on. Other people have even just said "Pass" and passed it on. It should be made clear initially that this is absolutely OK (if it is- and if it isn't, there's more problems there than a technical solution can address).

As someone on the retiring end, married to someone who is very talkative- I do not see why I should not be allowed to have a chance to speak because someone else REALLY WANTS to talk. Damn near ALL the time. Maybe they should learn to give other people fair space for expression. I also saw that a lot when I was teaching- some people would do their best to monopolize ALL my time, trying to prevent me from attending to others that also needed help but were not as bold/aggressive.

I am sure that people who want to do most of the talking are very uncomfortable when that's not allowed. I've seen that. I do not really see this as a bad thing; I think it is educational. Yes, even if they are stuck in their misery at NOT getting priority, and thus are not paying attention to anything but their own feelings. But I ask this: if everyone in the group needs to talk most of the time- who is there to listen? Is it even a group?

A talking stick is a technical solution to a real problem- which is mostly that some people monopolize the time/attention of the group, shutting others out. The shutting others out is the crux of the problem.
>>One of my favorite classes is the all-girls class. Nearly everyone speaks out, and has insightful things to say.<<

That's one of the leading arguments in favor of genderspace education.

>>In my mixed gender classes, I have to call on girls specifically, and often stop boys from thundering over them.<<

Good for you.

>>It's so easy as a teacher to want to get the lesson done in the shortest amount of time, that if you don't watch it, you start relying on the blurters (usually male) and forget to draw out your deeper thinkers, both female and male.<<

And that's how the changes in education are harming students and teachers. When the test scores determine whether you have a job, don't get hit by your parents, or get food stamps then it creates intense pressure. When there are 30 or 40 kids in a room, it's less about actually teaching and more about making sure nobody hurts each other. Efficiency trumps effectiveness.

As a student, I thought about these things, though it wasn't quite as bad then. I couldn't fix the system. I could only decide whether I would be polite, and get less education by allowing other people to trample me; or rude and get more education for myself at the expense of trampling other people. That's a vicious decision to put in front of a young person. I really didn't want examples of how the world is run by dicks and how acting like a dick can be a survival need in this culture.
I mostly don't interrupt, per se; I do tend to chime in- like gospel churchgoers do when listening to a sermon; I'm not trying to take over, just express agreement.

I have had to lay down the law with J, though; for years I'd get about half a sentence of what I was trying to communicate out, and he'd interrupt and be off to the races. meaning, he'd have a whole BUNCH of stuff, all more IMPORTANT that whatever i'd been trying to say. I tried waiting him out, and then resuming, but he'd do the same damn thing again. So now I just say "DO NOT INTERRUPT ME!!!!!" until he shuts up and I can continue.