Behind the Wall Street Protest
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A Little Slice of Terramagne: YardMap
Sadly the main program is dormant, but the YardMap concept is awesome, and many of its informative articles remain. YardMap was a citizen science…
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Goldenrod Gall Contents
Apparently all kinds of things go on inside goldenrod galls, beyond the caterpillars who make them. Fascinating. I've seen the galls but haven't…
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Science and Spirituality
Here's an article about science and spirituality, sort of. It doesn't have a very wide view of either. Can you be scientific and spiritual? This…
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A Little Slice of Terramagne: YardMap
Sadly the main program is dormant, but the YardMap concept is awesome, and many of its informative articles remain. YardMap was a citizen science…
-
Goldenrod Gall Contents
Apparently all kinds of things go on inside goldenrod galls, beyond the caterpillars who make them. Fascinating. I've seen the galls but haven't…
-
Science and Spirituality
Here's an article about science and spirituality, sort of. It doesn't have a very wide view of either. Can you be scientific and spiritual? This…
October 12 2011, 19:40:23 UTC 9 years ago
If the resources don't exist, they can't be used, and people fall into a more survival-focused mindset. The only way out is to find a new way to obtain necessary resources, or otherwise change the system (that is, the environment rather than the nature of markets) so that more effort flows where it's needed for a person to survive.
October 12 2011, 20:09:01 UTC 9 years ago
That's what I was telling you about Quickbooks and Excel: those jobs don't need humans anymore.
The jobs that *do* need humans tend to be things like food prep and wiping the bottoms of 90 year olds in nursing homes.
October 12 2011, 22:08:55 UTC 9 years ago
But overall I agree. Imo one problem is this idea of The Holy Job. Spend some large amount on 'creating jobs' -- when it would be cheaper to just GIVE that money to the workers direct.
October 12 2011, 22:17:19 UTC 9 years ago Edited: October 12 2011, 22:17:38 UTC
One thing that happens is that the shitty jobs don't get done. I have a farmer friend who wants to have some brush cut and burned to clear a field. She is willing to pay $10/hour for someone to do this work, which involves a brush hog for the physically awful parts. But she can't find anyone who will work at brush removal for $10/hour.
Another thing that happens is that whatever you suggest is not enough. It's not just about escaping the perils of starvation, exposure or illness. $15K/person will do that. But the complaint happening right now is about UNEVEN wealth. As one person put it to me, "everyone should get to live like Paris Hilton". Not that the standard of living on the planet earth should normalize across the continents with a "middle class" level of income for all, but that each American should live in luxury unimaginable to most of mankind throughout history.
Curing want is much easier than curing envy.
The last problem is that the GDP falls. Working for a living is HARD. If you were *sure* that you would get 3 squares and a warm place to sleep and maybe cable TV and health care when you need it, why bother? I mean, REALLY why bother? So it's not just those $15K/year jobs that people would give up, but also the $30K/year jobs (that eventually LEAD to the $60K/year jobs.)
Go study the U.S.S.R.. It turns out that "why bother" is a really compelling argument for staying home and drinking vodka.
October 12 2011, 22:57:24 UTC 9 years ago
I don't hold with the old Socialist slogan "every man a king". It's full of individualist empowerment, which sits well with Americans, but it's also full of envy, as you say. For me, "Every soul well with their work" is a much better slogan.
The boss that rewards everyone the same no matter what they do ends up with no workers. The boss that rewards everyone for the work they do ends up with many workers. However, is it sustainable for the boss's wages to be more than a hundred times what their workers are paid? "Just compensation" can be a hard subject to tackle.
Well...
October 12 2011, 23:39:28 UTC 9 years ago
That depends on how the money is arranged. One might, for instance, post a list of things that need doing and/or have people list their skills, so that people are doing something in exchange for the benefits they receive. Another approach would be to look at the crucial things people are doing but not getting paid for -- such as caring for children or elders, or volunteering in a fire department -- and pay them for the hard work they're already doing rather than society continuing to mooch off them.
>>As one person put it to me, "everyone should get to live like Paris Hilton".<<
That is neither possible nor desirable. Everyone needs to have healthy food, shelter, clothing, health care, physical and psychological safety, and something productive to do. While those needs vary somewhat, it's not hard to figure out how much resource is required per person. I believe that the basics should be provided for everyone, and people who want more should have opportunities to work harder in order to obtain it.
The mistake that socialism and communism tend to make is providing benefits without incentives, which tends to make people lazy and indifferent. The mistake that capitalism tends to make is putting a price tag on everything, which tends to make people greedy and selfish. Look at nature. Nature buffers important processes to avoid big spikes and dips. Nature cycles; it doesn't dump things in one place and leave them there. Energy always moves. There's always an exchange. That works. Let's emulate that, because the ideas we've been trying are just not very effective.
October 12 2011, 22:15:57 UTC 9 years ago
And by "new" resources, I was also suggesting new kinds of jobs and training as a way to deal with the increasing automation of human society. We can't all adapt in the same way, but we shouldn't have to starve just because our old jobs aren't necessary anymore.