Elizabeth Barrette (ysabetwordsmith) wrote,
Elizabeth Barrette
ysabetwordsmith

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Stories in Progress

I have a flurry of activity in Torn World, partly because we're assembling an anthology.  So ...

"Cutting Time" (about Eshra's difficulties with her age-set) has been through one round of revision with Doug and is currently awaiting his attention to the changes. 

"The Sky Rangers" (in which Fala tells a story) has been edited by Doug and submitted to the canon board.  xjenavivex has sponsored this story so it will be visible to the public when approved.  (If the canon board chokes on it for some unforeseen reason, it can always go up as non-canon.)  xjenavivex, I'm not finding you in the Torn World system; if you haven't already registered, please do that so I can click the box to list you as a Patron of this story.  If you are registered, I need to know your TW handle.

"Clouds in the Morning" (about Rai's first day of school) has been edited by Doug and Ellen.  Ellen and I outlined this story last year.  It was originally intended as a weave with me writing Rai and Ellen writing Bai, but we've decided that it stands well on its own.  So this one has been submitted to the canon board.  Hopefully we'll be able to fast-track it for inclusion in the first anthology.

"On the Rocks" (in which Eshra tends snow-unicorns) is rough drafted and I'll get back to it when I have time.  Prompt tag!  I posted a prompt in the sketch fest, Ellen illustrated it, and that image inspired this story.

"Squiggles and Squares" (about Nleimen's childhood) is rough drafted and I'll get back to it when I have time.  The first part came from a prompt in a Torn World Muse Fusion, and I expanded it considerably over the last week or so.

I need to do some timeline plotting and story drafting for Fala's midrange story arc, her young-adult years in Itrelir.  Ellen is working on some stuff so there are events we need to nail down for the character weaving there.

Do you want to make these projects move faster?  Show your support with a PayPal donation, Torn World credits, or karmaxjenavivex successfully bumped "The Sky Rangers" to a higher priority by sponsoring it.

Remember that Torn World has been nominated for a Rose & Bay Award!  If you're not a contributor then you can vote for us.  We would sure appreciate your support.
Tags: cyberfunded creativity, fantasy, science fiction, torn world, writing
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>>I should be registered as mg_ellington over there.<<

I checked the main site (where stories are submitted) and the forums (where discussions happen) and couldn't find that name in either listing. :( Try logging in to check your status. If you can find yourself and I can't, I'll ask ellenmillion what might be wrong.

>>Thank you so much for this update. Getting to see what you are working on is very exciting.<<

You're welcome! I have a lot of pots on the hearth at the moment, so it is exciting.

Deleted comment

The forum I see here:
http://www.tornworld.net/forum/memberlist.php
... does not list that and thinks that only 1 user is currently logged in.

I have no idea what's up. I'll just PM Ellen and ask her to add you as a Patron if she can see you on the main site.

Deleted comment

Okay...

ysabetwordsmith

10 years ago

Will the anthology serve as an introduction to the setting (perhaps including some nonfiction essays on the history and geography)?

I've seen you post a lot about this project, and have been curious. But when I wandered over to the site, it was very confusing.

There's a map, with some things labeled in red, and others in black. But there is no key saying what the difference between the two is (red seems to be cultures, and black place names, but I'm not sure). The map can also show "shards" but nothing explains what shards are.

The history is a timeline with very brief entries, and mentions people and places I don't recognize.

The Background section, which I had hoped would provide some background on the setting and major places and people instead seems to have a bunch of what appears to be random cultural stuff, which is neat but it doesn't give me a good place to start.

The Take A Tour section has tours... but none seems to be history oriented (or if one is, I did miss it).

I just can't tell where to start or how to get an even basic grounding in the setting and the history. If the anthology is intended to do that, I would be very interested.
>> Will the anthology serve as an introduction to the setting (perhaps including some nonfiction essays on the history and geography)? <<

It is intended as an introduction, yes. It will have a foreword to that effect and we're considering whether to include individual intros for each story. I recommended including a map; I don't know if that will happen or not. We haven't talked about including nonfiction essays. I'll direct ellenmillion to this discussion so she can read what you have to say, and think about it.

>>I've seen you post a lot about this project, and have been curious. But when I wandered over to the site, it was very confusing. <<

Yeah, we have put some effort into making it easier for new folks to get started, and it's ... er, failing miserably to judge from the feedback. *headdesk* But you've given some good input here, so maybe this will help.

I do know that there is an introductory page for new vistors. The link is sort of tucked up in that big banner atop the page. Under the login prompt it says:
"New to Torn World? Find out more about our shared-world project here!"
Click the link on "here." Ah, I found it while looking up the time shards:
http://www.tornworld.net/settingpageview.php?id=54

>>There's a map, with some things labeled in red, and others in black. But there is no key saying what the difference between the two is (red seems to be cultures, and black place names, but I'm not sure). The map can also show "shards" but nothing explains what shards are.<<

Aha! Now this is great stuff. Those are things that should be fixable. I agree that the map needs a key. (I think you're right; the cultures are in red and the cities/towns in black.) Really we should do it with more layers: a cultures version, a cities version, the shards, and the geographic names for water bodies and such.

Anyhow, the "shards" are time shards. The Upheaval broke the world into fragments, each moving at a different time, so the boundaries could not be crossed. Then gradually the barriers began to fall, which gave the surviving wildlife and people (if any) access to new territory. (I think one map shows dates when certain barriers fell.) This is explained in the "Start Here: For Readers" article and some others, but I think we should add a summary to the map page.

Hm, do you think it would help if we had a FAQ page with things like "What are time shards?"
>>The history is a timeline with very brief entries, and mentions people and places I don't recognize.<<

To learn about the people: Click "Characters" and look for their names. The Character Information Sheet tells all kinds of details, plus the person who owns the character (if any), artwork of the character, and stories that feature the character.

To learn about places: Click "Background" and then "Location" or use the search box to search for a specific place name.

Do you think it would help if we put those pointers on the timeline page?

I tried searching history ... and yeah, there doesn't seem to be a text summary of it for readers. Would that be helpful enough to be worth writing?

>>The Background section, which I had hoped would provide some background on the setting and major places and people instead seems to have a bunch of what appears to be random cultural stuff, which is neat but it doesn't give me a good place to start.<<

Aha! We don't have a "Who's Who in Torn World?" introducing the main characters. That would be handy.

You're right in that the individual articles are all about different places or customs -- that has to do with the way those were created, mostly as contest entries. So, a "What's Where in Torn World" could be collated as an overview of the settings.

Something we could do faster would be to link the "Start Here" pages (for readers and contributors) at the top of the Background page.

>>The Take A Tour section has tours... but none seems to be history oriented (or if one is, I did miss it).<<

Those are storyline tours; they mostly show batches of stuff created on the same plot arc. We've been meaning to get some category tours posted as well, like one for myths, etc. I'm not sure if we really have the pieces to make a good "history" tour. We do have a number of "gateway" stories that introduce main characters for the first time and explain the setting a little more. Those could be assembled into a tour.

>>I just can't tell where to start or how to get an even basic grounding in the setting and the history. If the anthology is intended to do that, I would be very interested.<<

The main question is whether we'll do any better with the anthology than we have with the site. Anything more you can tell us about features that would improve your experience of the site and/or anthology would be greatly appreciated. I'll pass the word and urge other Torn World staff to consider this.

Thank you for all your help!
Ok, going to characters makes sense for info on specific people. Is there a "Cultures" page with info on cultures, or is most of that on the "Start Here" page?

To learn about places: Click "Background" and then "Location" or use the search box to search for a specific place name.

I would put those exact words somewhere on the "Start Here" page. I would probably not have tried that. It might also be worthwhile to just have a section/link called "geography" or "cultures" which includes the appropriate map (one with geographic names or one with the cultures indicated by area).

I do think it would be useful to have a note at the top of the timeline which indicates that if readers want to know more about a person they should go to Characters and if they want to know about a place they should go to "insert section here" and if they want to know about a culture they should go to "insert section here."

I'd say that you have a LOT of information on Torn World, and cross-referencing a lot (while tedious and not fun for your web team) is going to be most helpful or visitors.

A text summary of the history would be helpful, for me at least. Not everyone likes reading history (it is a topic that runs the risk of becoming dry or dull). I've found, from reading lots of RPG books, that having a timeline I can refer to and a history that is divided into 2-3 paragraph chunks with clear headings works well. Someone looking for a specific time period can scroll or flip until they get to it. Someone who wants the whole history has it in what I'd call "digestible chunks."

A Who's Who for Torn World would be nice. Possibly at the top of the Characters page? List the main characters first, then later list the secondary characters (in some kind of order, whether alphabetical or by culture or by time period, whichever makes the most sense). Knowing who the main characters are will help potential readers decide "I like that one, I want to read more." If the characters page doesn't list who the main characters are, I as a reader can't tell who I will be reading about most. Now, granted, Torn World does allow readers to promote characters to become a main character. But still, knowing who you are likely to read a lot about helps when selecting any book or story.

"What's Where" or "Geography and CUlture", or something along those lines would be good. But yes, linking the "Start Here" page to the Background page would be good, as then new readers can go straight there. Again, cross-referencing is good!

Ah! I did not realize those were storyline tours. I expected a tour of the setting. Maybe call that page something like "Linked Stories" or "Plot Arcs." Something which indicates what they really are. Maybe "Story Tours," if you want to keep the word tour. Unfortunately, I think I was misunderstanding what you meant - the word "tour" was misleading.

Re: Hmm...

ysabetwordsmith

10 years ago

Re: Hmm...

eseme

10 years ago

Re: Hmm...

ysabetwordsmith

10 years ago

As for making the anthology a good starting point, I think including "non-fiction" background material would be good. Things like creation stories, or a character relating a history (possibly followed by a different character talking about the same events form a different viewpoint). Adding background to the stories in a short introduction is helpful. Just a few sentences, maybe a couple of paragraphs at most, which fill in some information necessary to follow the story - either that or start the anthology with general introductory information, and then let each story stand on its own. I think it is definitely a balance - you don't want to get didactic, or to detract from the reader's joy in learning things through the stories. But some brief info like the short history and culture info on the "Start Here" page would help.

As for the site (because I think this sort of thing in a book would range into the expensive in terms of the size of the book and color printing), I would look as successful "supplemental worldbuilding" publications. I know on my self I have People of Pern, The DragonRider's Guide to Pern, and The Atlas of Pern, not to mention many role-playing game supplements which detail certain aspects of a setting. The Pern supplements contain a lot of the kind of info that fans and readers like, and are generally organized well (with the exception of a number of sidebars in the DragonRider's Guide showing up in odd places). In your case, a lot of that would be viewable only to those with an account on the site, or possibly only to contributors or to patrons. But the organization schemes are helpful, and some of it can be public.

One of my favorites for arranging info is Paizo's Guide to Darkmoon Vale (though most of their "Guide to..." books are similar, and I think you mentioned you have some of them). There is a timeline inside the front cover, easy to refer to (you've got a timeline), and a pull-out poster map in he back (you have various maps on your site).

The first part is a regional overview which is an introduction to the book and includes some basic info on the area, mottos and symbols, the people, general attitudes of the people, a bit about the economy, and some slang terms.

Then there is a section on the wilderness of the area, because it is rural (a city would be different) but info on the geography and plants and animals of the area is good. There are some smaller inset maps in this section, and information on various areas that players of the game might visit (including hints of a couple of dragons in the area!).

The next section is about civilization, and details the various towns in Darkmoon Vale, as well as sidebars on the NPCs (in your case, characters in the area), and on the various groups and factions. The next section is on the history of Darkmoon Vale.

The final section is Secrets - this is the part of the book that only a game master is supposed to read (in terms of Torn World, it may be a writer-only area with plot info).

Does that help or make sense? I am long-winded tonight...
I'm not going to quote you, simply so I don't hit the character limit on comments. But I will move in order through your thoughts.

I think an anthology introduction is nice, as it is one place for new readers to go and be directed to. I thing nonfiction pieces (such as a written history of some kind) would be helpful, as would a map (possibly more than one as you have a lot going on between shards, cultures, and locations). I do think introductions to each story, which help to set the story in the history/timeline and in the culture it takes place in will be helpful for new readers. I think a brief intro to "The North Country, fifty years ago" which describes the culture and any important historical events, followed by a story which showcases one character in that culture makes for a good combination.

The "Start Here" page for new visitors has a lot of what I was looking for. Making it easier to find would be a key thing.

I think more layers (or individual maps) would be good, along with a map key and a link to what shards are. Also, I get the impression that shards and cultures overlap a good deal. Possibly color-coding the cultures with the shard-lines over them would be informative. When the culture is just indicated by a word on the map, it is difficult to see how far that culture reaches. Names for geographic features are good as well. Given the size of the map you are working with (which is small but browser friendly) making different maps is probably the way to go. Someday you could sell poster-sized maps which allow for more details on one map if there is interest.

The "Start Here" page explained the shards well. That made more sense than just hitting the main page. But an FAQ page might also be good (possibly linked to on both the main site and the "Start Here" page).
This is all very useful info. Thanks for taking the time to spell out what makes the site difficult for newcomers, and what might make it more accessible.

The "Start Here" link now appears near the top of the lefthand menu on the main site. I think this will help people find it.

Color-coding the map like a geography map is a great idea! I hadn't thought of that yet. (We do have miniature range maps for some animals and plants, showing where they live, in the articles.)

Re: Thank you!

eseme

10 years ago

Re: Thank you!

eseme

10 years ago

Go for it!

ysabetwordsmith

10 years ago

Re: Go for it!

eseme

10 years ago

Re: Hmm...

wyld_dandelyon

10 years ago

Re: Hmm...

eseme

10 years ago

Re: Hmm...

wyld_dandelyon

10 years ago

I've just made several extensive updates to the page - I'd also gotten some feedback that the links were difficult to read, so I redid all of them while I re-ordered things to (hopefully!) make it easier to find the 'jump in' pages.

A key for the map is a great idea, I still need to do that!

I'll continue to make improvements - this is very useful feedback!
You're welcome! I was worried it was a bit much, and all rather negative.

I've heard such interesting things about Torn World, and you've linked to some great images with the snow unicorns. So I think I would really like it, I just don't know where to to to start.

I'll try to give some in depth comments to Yasbet above. I think your site and your world really took off among the first group of people involved - which is great, as enthusiasm and content are really important. The current issue seems to be that it is hard for new people to figure out where to start. But I think that is something you can work on, and then once they do find a starting place, there appears to be a TON of content for them once they arrive.
Also, the Start Here link is much clearer now. It is much easier to find.

And I am very rambly up above. Sorry! I do that. Please take it with a grain of salt as one person's impression.

I am going to wander through the Start Here section and some of the culture stuff soon.

wyld_dandelyon

10 years ago

>>I've just made several extensive updates to the page - I'd also gotten some feedback that the links were difficult to read, so I redid all of them while I re-ordered things to (hopefully!) make it easier to find the 'jump in' pages. <<

Yay! Thank you for doing this. It looks very helpful.

>>A key for the map is a great idea, I still need to do that! <<

Agreed. I'd also like to see individual layers for:
* blank map just showing geological/environmental features
* geographical features named (mountain ranges, seas, etc.)
* city names/numbers
* cultures and other regional names, with their areas marked in different colors like a geography map usually does
* time shards (unnumbered)
* time shards numbered (and the key needs to tell that some of those numbers are border-fall years)

>>I'll continue to make improvements - this is very useful feedback!<<

I've posted on the "publications" thread in the forum about the idea to make a nonfiction worldbook, which I think should wait until later but is really neat. I haven't ported over my agreement with putting a bit of nonfiction background into the first anthology, but I think that's a good idea -- especially given that multiple people have told us that Torn World looks fun but is daunting to enter. We need a stepstool for that antho.

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