Elizabeth Barrette (ysabetwordsmith) wrote,
Elizabeth Barrette
ysabetwordsmith
  • Mood: busy

The Gender of Apologies

I saw this post about how women apologize more often than men.

I think women give more apologies because it is demanded of them.  That always pisses me off.  Girls are told to apologize for things -- and far more trivial things -- than boys are, even if it means lying.  That becomes a habit for many people.
Tags: gender studies, networking
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  • 31 comments
msstacy13

msstacy13

October 10 2010, 20:54:37 UTC 10 years ago

I may have mentioned before that in conversations between
doctors and patients of different genders,
men interrupt women more often,
regardless of which is the doctor.
ysabetwordsmith

Yes...

ysabetwordsmith

October 10 2010, 20:59:16 UTC 10 years ago

I'm not surprised.

Given a choice, I'd rather have a reasonably balanced conversation. But if the other person tries to play verbal football with me, I will break out my hockey stick and beat them into the ice. People do not expect this behavior from a female-bodied person, but I prefer it to sitting silently while the Important Men get to do everything. If they won't make a place for me, I'll make my own. It got me kicked out of classes in school ... *ponder* but I think I'm a better teacher for all the ghastly mistakes that I saw other people make.
msstacy13

Re: Yes...

msstacy13

10 years ago

  • New comment
ysabetwordsmith

Well...

ysabetwordsmith

10 years ago

  • New comment
msstacy13

Re: Well...

msstacy13

10 years ago

  • New comment
zianuray

zianuray

October 10 2010, 21:08:55 UTC 10 years ago

OH don't get me started...!
raindrops

raindrops

October 10 2010, 21:14:05 UTC 10 years ago

If I weren't a man, I would apologize on behalf of all men...
ysabetwordsmith

Hmm...

ysabetwordsmith

October 10 2010, 22:25:56 UTC 10 years ago

I think ... it's not about "all" men, but about the society and how it prescribes masculine and feminine behavior. Anyone can choose to buck the system, but there's a cost to doing that, so most people don't. It can be changed, if people decide they don't like it, and work to make it different. We've seen some of that over time. But many of the subtle forces are still doing the same darn thing, which can be a problem.

I don't generally blame individuals for sweeping social patterns. But I will step in to rock the boat when an opportunity presents itself, and I will call people's attention to what they're doing. It's not always popular, but it's my way of being the change I want to see in the world.
raindrops

Re: Hmm...

raindrops

10 years ago

  • New comment
ysabetwordsmith

Re: Hmm...

ysabetwordsmith

10 years ago

  • New comment
cissa

Re: Hmm...

cissa

10 years ago

  • New comment
judifilksign

judifilksign

October 10 2010, 22:30:41 UTC 10 years ago

I think I remember a study that showed that women opened more doors and held them open for people than men did, too. I think women are acculturated into being more aware of others' feelings than men are.
ravan

ravan

October 10 2010, 22:55:29 UTC 10 years ago

I'm not sure whether that is awareness of feelings, or awareness of surroundings
ysabetwordsmith

Yes...

ysabetwordsmith

10 years ago

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judifilksign

Re: Yes...

judifilksign

10 years ago

  • New comment
ysabetwordsmith

Re: Yes...

ysabetwordsmith

10 years ago

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the_s_guy

the_s_guy

October 11 2010, 00:08:17 UTC 10 years ago

How early does it show? I know a lot of kids who certainly were stubborn about not apologising, regardless of gender.

There's also a distinction between apology styles when they are made. Women tend to make them personal - "I'm sorry..." whereas men, I've noticed, tend more towards the impersonal - "My apologies." or even the I'm-not-apologising apology: "I'm sorry you feel that way."

Speaking of apologies from kids, though, what were people's reactions as kids to the whole "apologise and MEAN IT" routine? Mine was always confusion - I was a kid, I couldn't control how I felt, and I was usually angry and upset. A sincere apology might have been on the moon for all my ability to deliver.
raindrops

raindrops

October 11 2010, 00:20:29 UTC 10 years ago

You can use your parental authority to make your child "apologize," but you can't make them "mean it" by fiat. They may learn the motions by rote, but if they're not taught all the things that go along with an apology, it's just words.

But teaching that requires engaging the child on a level beyond, "Because I said so."

And that's a lot more work.
ysabetwordsmith

Yes...

ysabetwordsmith

10 years ago

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ysabetwordsmith

Thoughts

ysabetwordsmith

10 years ago

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mdlbear

mdlbear

October 11 2010, 02:07:34 UTC 10 years ago

It may also have something to do with self-image. I'm male, but apologize enough to drive my wife crazy sometimes. I generally blame myself for whatever is going wrong; if I didn't actually cause it I'll blame myself for not being able to fix it.
raindrops

raindrops

October 11 2010, 03:24:22 UTC 10 years ago

I think both you and I would be outliers in the context of this study. ;)
ysabetwordsmith

Yes...

ysabetwordsmith

10 years ago

  • New comment
ysabetwordsmith

Yes...

ysabetwordsmith

10 years ago

  • New comment
je_reviens

je_reviens

October 11 2010, 03:58:33 UTC 10 years ago

I do that. And, I'm sorry.
je_reviens

je_reviens

October 11 2010, 04:02:35 UTC 10 years ago

On a more serious note -- I wonder how this plays into ideas of domination and submission. Because I know women who are very Dominant, and they don't apologize much, and there are some men I have met who have Submissive tendencies (well hidden, usually, since OH NOES poor men cannot be a Man unless Dominant, right?) who are far more apologetic.
ysabetwordsmith

Yes...

ysabetwordsmith

October 11 2010, 04:23:00 UTC 10 years ago

Those aspects do play into it, not just sexual games, but power dynamics in general. Some people are naturally assertive, others naturally malleable.
raindrops

Re: Yes...

raindrops

10 years ago

  • New comment
the_vulture

the_vulture

October 11 2010, 10:06:55 UTC 10 years ago

Hmmm... I can't say that I've witnessed much trying to get one gender of children or other to apologize moreso than the other. In fact, I really don't see much trying to get them to apologize at all. It is explained to them what they've done wrong and why it is so, receive punishment as necessary, but I rarely see adults asking kids to apologize.

This might seem a counter-intuitive expectation of national culture who's international reputation for frequently offering apologies is often joked about. ("How do you make a Canadian apologize? Step on his foot.")

I imagine one would get a wide variety of results depending on which cultural locales one was to conduct similar studies at.
ysabetwordsmith

Thoughts

ysabetwordsmith

October 13 2010, 01:14:12 UTC 10 years ago

("How do you make a Canadian apologize? Step on his foot.")

*giggle*

>>I imagine one would get a wide variety of results depending on which cultural locales one was to conduct similar studies at.<<

Yes, that is quite possible.

*ponder* Russians didn't seem to apologize much, when I visited there. The Georgians were perfectly willing to apologize to me, or each other, but not the Russians. I don't remember a clear impression of Mexican apologies. Japanese folks I've known are quick with apologies, both genders.
the_vulture

Re: Thoughts

the_vulture

10 years ago

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