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Ultimate Science Fiction Poetry Guide - The Wordsmith's Forge
The Writing & Other Projects of Elizabeth Barrette
ysabetwordsmith
ysabetwordsmith
Ultimate Science Fiction Poetry Guide
Explore some major poets who minored in F&SF.

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marina_bonomi From: marina_bonomi Date: August 23rd, 2010 08:15 am (UTC) (Link)
Interesting, but I really don't get the inclusion of Dante (#20) the Convivio is a scientific/philosophical treatise,you may say that he got the science wrong, but that was the state of the studies at his time.
Ditto for the Paradise quote, that is philosophy in verse, the fact that the poster (likely) doesn't share the outlook of the quoted author doesn't make it fantasy or SF.

Given that Dante is an author I know well, I wonder how many of the others I'm not familiar with got the same treatment...
ysabetwordsmith From: ysabetwordsmith Date: August 23rd, 2010 05:06 pm (UTC) (Link)

Thoughts

I could see Dante as fantasy.

I think any listing of mainstream authors as F&SF relevant is likely to be subjective. Not everyone may see the same things in my list that I do, but there are some that have inspired part of my speculative writing anyhow.
marina_bonomi From: marina_bonomi Date: August 23rd, 2010 05:24 pm (UTC) (Link)

I think

We'll have to agree on disagreeing on this point.

I agree with you that an exact definition of 'fantasy' is nebolous, and I have actually seen Dante's Comedy shelved among fantasy books (in a Taiwanese bookstore, that was).

What differentiates, for me, is the intent of the author, in his lights Dante was writing a phylosophical treatise (the Convivium)and an allegorical poem (the Divine Comedy), and that defines them to me.

I might not share the worldview of the Mahabharata or rely the scientific elements in the Avesta, but that, IMO, doesn't make them fantasy or SF.
marina_bonomi From: marina_bonomi Date: August 23rd, 2010 05:33 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: I think

Just to be clear I do see (and I share the sentiment) how Dante, can be relevant and a strong *inspiration* for fantasy/SF writers, no qualms with that at all. It's the idea of the man as someone who wrote fantasy himself that I don't buy.
ysabetwordsmith From: ysabetwordsmith Date: August 23rd, 2010 05:34 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: I think

Eh ... it might be a misunderstanding. I don't mean "fantasy" in the sense of "made up," but in the sense of, hm, phantasmagorical or otherworldly. Much of mythology and cosmology has that kind of flavor for me. I don't think of fantasy and philosophy as opposed any more than I think of magic and science as opposed. Though I suppose that's not a common perspective either and you might still totally disagree with it.
marina_bonomi From: marina_bonomi Date: August 23rd, 2010 05:43 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: I think

Ah, that's different! I meant it in the sense of the 'fantasy genre' as commonly seen in bookstores or libraries.

Yes,it's a misunderstanding about the definition, similar to the 'technical' definition of myth (which I use)as a narration that might or might not be true but it meant to convey a deeper meaning, as opposed to the common use of 'myth' as made-up story or credence without basis in reality.

I wonder how the list's author meant it, though ;-)
ysabetwordsmith From: ysabetwordsmith Date: August 24th, 2010 02:13 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: I think

>> similar to the 'technical' definition of myth (which I use)as a narration that might or might not be true but it meant to convey a deeper meaning, as opposed to the common use of 'myth' as made-up story or credence without basis in reality. <<

I tend to use the definition of myth as a "sacred story," something that tells the cosmology or spirituality of a culture -- which I picked up in a Folklore class in college. Most of the students freaked when the teacher pointed out that this includes the Bible and other major religious works, especially creation myths.

One thing I like about speculative fiction is the way it lets us explore the numinous from different angles. Fantasy is good for touching on the mystical and the spiritual. Science fiction is good for exploring the awe in nature and the unknown. Horror is about facing demons, the ultimate questions of good and evil. They are truths seen through a smoked glass so we don't blind ourselves by staring into the sun.

Plus which, despite being Pagan, I love stories about angels and demons. Those are usually handled in a fantasy or urban fantasy mode. So I am kind of predisposed to connect fantasy and religion along those lines. I'm also deeply into Pagan fiction, which is another line in the same plane. *chuckle* On rare, glorious occasions they even cross, such as in Holly Lisle's Sympathy for the Devil and its sequels.
ankh_hpl From: ankh_hpl Date: August 23rd, 2010 07:42 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks! This looks extremely useful.
ysabetwordsmith From: ysabetwordsmith Date: August 23rd, 2010 08:50 pm (UTC) (Link)

You're welcome!

I'm glad you like it.
9 comments or Leave a comment