I do not consider Israel a civilized nation. (I wish it would have been, but sheesh and baksheesh, Germany is accruing beans faster on the civilized side of the scale.) I sincerely wish that America would stop sending money there. It is funding atrocities. This costs America a lot of civilized beans.
Intent to Kill
I do not consider Israel a civilized nation. (I wish it would have been, but sheesh and baksheesh, Germany is accruing beans faster on the civilized side of the scale.) I sincerely wish that America would stop sending money there. It is funding atrocities. This costs America a lot of civilized beans.
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Character notes for "Good Food Choices Are Good Investments"
These are the character notes for "Good Food Choices Are Good Investments." Penina Trueblood -- She has tawny-fair skin, blue eyes,…
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Poem: "Good Food Choices Are Good Investments"
This poem is spillover from the May 4, 2021 Poetry Fishbowl. It was inspired by prompts from chanter1944, technoshaman, and Anonymous. It…
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Poem: "Who Can Create the Future"
This poem is spillover from the May 4, 2021 Poetry Fishbowl. It was inspired by prompts from chanter1944, technoshaman, and Anonymous. It…
Thoughts
June 6 2010, 20:19:19 UTC 11 years ago
I agree.
>> The problem is that its entire military is 18 to 20 years old -- including many of the people in decision-making capacities.<<
Ah, that explains much. They're all still razor-sharp from training ... haven't had time to wear down to a more versatile selection of fillet knives, steak knives, and axes. Not enough time to build experience, either.
>> Our world has become complex enough that I think that countries need militaries composed of people who are at least in their mid-twenties or older.<<
*ponder* I wouldn't throw out the younger soldiers, because they do have their uses. But I would like to see a lot more diversity in terms of age (and gender, etc.) to enable more resilient and layered response options.
>> It's not that Israel is uncivilized: Israel is rather immature, and seriously traumatized.<<
Hrm. I think I'd shuffle the order: traumatized, immature, in a lousy location, and therefore manifesting a variety of dysfunctional behaviors. The end result of that is "uncivilized" by my standard, but it's a different flavor of uncivilized than, say, a country that can't hold a government together for 10 years running or a country that is being mismanaged by a military dictator. Since the root causes are different, the effective solutions are likely to be different.
Traumatized ... is on the fringes of my expertise, and better left to experts. I can surmise that study of nonviolent conflict resolution might be helpful, along with a lot more exploration of both Judaism and Israel's positive-flow culture. You've got a chunk of land, but land doesn't make a nation. Now that you've got ground to stand on, what do you want to do with it? How do Judaism and Israel express themselves as positive concepts, rather than negative reactions to a lot of historical attempts at extermination? There's a deep well of potential there, but a lot of it is untapped or insufficiently coherent. The one thing they bullseyed was language revival. How damaged are the older Israeli people, who fled there from historic horrors? How damaged are the younger generations by that background and the neighboring disasters and what-all else? How much of that damage is reparable, and what can be done to fix it, in hopes of producing healthier and happier people and a more functional nation? Figuring that out is a lot more work, only some of which is accessible to outsiders.
Immature ... only time will solve the core of that. However, a great deal of improvement could be made by examining what other countries have done right and wrong, emulating the former and avoiding mistakes made by the latter. With the founding of America, people did that, and some of the ideas were brilliant and the ideals valiant, although the execution has often fallen far short of the aim. Judaism has a downright epic tradition of scholarly study and logical argument, the potential of which far exceeds current applications.
This raises the question: How long are other countries and the world at large willing to watch Israel flailing around like this? How long is a fair chance to launch a nation, however much damage is done in the learning process? How long is too long to wait while damage is being done, and you should've concluded already that this was not going to work and taken the knife away from the toddler? Those answers I don't have. I am past the point of being comfortable with America's continued funding of Israeli military. Humanitarian aid is different; I'd keep that going.
Then there's the problem of the Middle East in general: the Jews were given territory in a messed-up and disputed part of the world, and it's hard to develop a sane and functional nation when a lot of people in your part of the world routinely murder each other and set things on fire. But we're all stuck with that decision, unless the chaos of government evolution causes the nation to move or dissolve. That means trying to find ways for people to coexist without killing each other or setting things on fire.
Re: Thoughts
June 6 2010, 21:41:09 UTC 11 years ago
intercepted a blockade runner.
They killed nine people.
They didn't sink the ship.
For that matter,
in spite of having both nuclear and chemical weapons
at their disposal,
they have refrained from using them,
or threatening to use them.
Perhaps sending innocent people into harm's way
is not the best way to approach the problem?
Re: Thoughts
June 7 2010, 02:49:34 UTC 11 years ago
intercepted a blockade runner.<<
The blockade is also killing people, inasmuch as someone who dies for lack of health care/food/water/other supplies is just as dead as someone killed by a bullet. Some folks are just not okay with killing people or starving them to death because you dislike them.
>> They killed nine people. <<
... who, insofar as I have heard, were not threatening violence to the Israeli patrol. (If the reports are incomplete, and the activists were armed and posing a credible threat, then armed conflict is more justified; but it still should not have happened in international waters.) In such circumstances, detaining the offenders is sufficient. Unless, of course, one's goal is to use terrorism, violence, and death threats to discourage everyone else from coming near one's territory; while this is a popular choice, it is not generally considered civilized and can backfire.
>> For that matter,
in spite of having both nuclear and chemical weapons
at their disposal,
they have refrained from using them,
or threatening to use them.<<
I'll allow that they haven't used what they have. I think I've heard complaints about Israel doing some saber-rattling in that regard, though.
>> Perhaps sending innocent people into harm's way
is not the best way to approach the problem? <<
That may well be true. I'm always on the lookout for other possibilities. It still doesn't excuse the unnecessary killing of noncombatants in international waters.
However, conceding that some other approach is necessary pretty much confirms that Israel can't be trusted to honor the rules of engagement -- and not everyone is (or was, prior to this incident, which may have changed some minds) willing to take that stance.
Activism has never been a safe practice. People who do it should be aware of that. But it's still generally considered wrong to shoot activists or other noncombatants.
Re: Thoughts
June 7 2010, 03:34:39 UTC 11 years ago
I must admit.